That’s why we have a republic / democracy.
There’s the rub. It’s impossible to obtain every citizen’s consent, to every tax. But I think we’re hitting on a truth here -
Tax “theft” simply refers to taxes we don’t like.
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Ownership is not decided by the government. Ownership is decided by each individual- if you earned it, if you worked for it, it should be yours. And no one else’s, including the government’s.
If somebody steals your stuff, who do you call?
Ahh. So I can just say I own “your” money right? Since the government doesn’t determine this, and I the individual do, you will gladly let me take your money without calling the police?
^ Rugged individualist. I like it.
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The govt provides services which taxes pay for, how is that theft?
That’s a human construct. It doesn’t exist anywhere outside of human thought / societal conventions
You shoot them with your rifle, back in the old days. 
Normally you would call the police. But in a true minarchist nation, or even an anarchist nation, you defend your property. The police is an unncessary luxury, and sometimes, a curse.
So…we live in a minarchist or anarchist nation? I could be confused, but I thought we didn’t.
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Ownership is determined materially by those with the power to retain said resources, either directly via force or via force through institutions.
It should be. I’m an idealist, not a realist, if that makes sense. No where did I say that the U.S. is a small-government nation, and we can see that through the large, cancerous government we have today.
Pretty much.
It makes sense. Thanks for explaining. I’m the opposite, a realist to a fault. But I appreciate the different perspective.
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Lest we forget, my friends, while I’m on my soapbox, this place sure would be boring if we were all the same.
Consent of the governed is a vague construct, to be best. Personally, I pragmatically accept the government, but I don’t explicitly consent to it or any of its acts. I pay taxes NOT because I feel obligated to pay them, but because I will go to jail and be financially ruined by the government if I don’t.
The status quo favors my accepting the current taxation scheme and other government law. However, I would NOT voluntarily pay certain taxes. I would not pay into Social Security or Medicare, programs I find essentially flawed and non-constructive, by choice. I pay out of compulsion to do so by the government. I don’t mind certain taxation, spent for logical purposes. Hopefully, the government will keep taxation at least within reason.
Imho the simplest place is to simplify the tax code, to were it’s harder to wiggle out of it.
I don’t think Congress wants to do this because they do the same thing of course not for the amount billionaires do. Still seems the logical place to start fix it to were an accounting wizard and army of lawyers can’t write everything off and pay nothing in taxes
Good god man, now there’s an answer. Your opening line hits the nail on the head, and it’s why I posed the question. Consent of the governed is such a nebulous construct. We’ve been grappling with it for hundreds of years, and will be until a big mass of ice and rock smacks into the planet and everything dies.
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Yessss. PREACH.
Let’s use an example.
Some guy comes up and puts a gun in my face. He takes $20,000 from me but leaves an automobile worth that amount of money.
It is STILL theft, even though he left a comparable value, because I did not desire to make the exchange. I would have preferred keeping the cash money.
Same with government.
I am not advocating tax avoidance, by the way.
Just stating a concept that taxation is theft, regardless of benefits received.
Now if you personally consent to the taxation, that might not be the case, but very few people explicitly consent to every form of taxation they are subjected to.
