So do you think initiating an Impeachment process is something to laugh about?
Perception is real. Thatâs what this whole topic of discussion is about. Perception.
That is not the point. The anonymity of the whistleblower is not protected by the Whistleblower Act. There was no violation of the law in revealing his name. That is the point.

Perception is real. Thatâs what this whole topic of discussion is about. Perception.
This reply meshes with my expectationsâŚ

Samm:
None of that negates the fact that Biden used the threat of withholding of funds to get his (our) way. That is the crux of the issue. On the other hand, Zelensky has stated that he was unaware of any threat to withhold funds if Trumpâs request for an investigation was not conducted.
The crux of the issue is that Donald Trump conducted a sweeping and systematic campaign in order to get the President of an ally to publicly state he would open an investigation into Trumpâs political rival.
That Biden is a potential political rival is immaterial. The question raised as to whether Hunter Biden got the job for no other apparent reason than to have the potential to use his father for political favors is reason enough to conduct an investigation. Regardless whether that occurred or not is secondary to the overt appearance of conflict of interest of that arrangement. Do you not agree that the arrangement between Hunter Biden and Burisma was highly suspect? And how about the similar arrangement Hunter had in China? It stinks and you know it.

Samm:
Perception is real. Thatâs what this whole topic of discussion is about. Perception.
This reply meshes with my expectationsâŚ
I customize posts to the expectations of the recipient. Raise your game.

The crux of the issue is that Donald Trump conducted a sweeping and systematic campaign in order to get the President of an ally to publicly state he would open an investigation into Trumpâs political rival.
That Biden is a potential political rival is immaterial. The question raised as to whether Hunter Biden got the job for no other apparent reason than to have the potential to use his father for political favors is reason enough to conduct an investigation. Regardless whether that occurred or not is secondary to the overt appearance of conflict of interest of that arrangement. Do you not agree that the arrangement between Hunter Biden and Burisma was highly suspect? And how about the similar arrangement Hunter had in China? It stinks and you know it.
Nepotism, favortism, cronyism⌠whatever you want to call it, I disagree with it. If you want to discuss the similar experiences of Jared and Ivanka, I would consider that similar.
However, the acts associated with Ukraine and Trump are very different than the nepotism you bring up. Trump had a goal of getting a public statement to benefit his political life. His personal lawyer set out to achieve this goal. The Ambassador to Ukraine was fired to facilitate this goal. This was a concerted effort to attain this goal. It was not just one phone call.

Samm:
The crux of the issue is that Donald Trump conducted a sweeping and systematic campaign in order to get the President of an ally to publicly state he would open an investigation into Trumpâs political rival.
That Biden is a potential political rival is immaterial. The question raised as to whether Hunter Biden got the job for no other apparent reason than to have the potential to use his father for political favors is reason enough to conduct an investigation. Regardless whether that occurred or not is secondary to the overt appearance of conflict of interest of that arrangement. Do you not agree that the arrangement between Hunter Biden and Burisma was highly suspect? And how about the similar arrangement Hunter had in China? It stinks and you know it.
Nepotism, favoritism, cronyism⌠whatever you want to call it, I disagree with it. If you want to discuss the similar experiences of Jared and Ivanka, I would consider that similar.
However, the acts associated with Ukraine and Trump are very different than the nepotism you bring up. Trump had a goal of getting a public statement to benefit his political life. His personal lawyer set out to achieve this goal. The Ambassador to Ukraine was fired to facilitate this goal. This was a concerted effort to attain this goal. It was not just one phone call.
It was not nepotism, it was influence buying. They didnât hire Hunter as a favor to Joe, they hired him to potentially influence Joe.

The crux of the issue is that Donald Trump conducted a sweeping and systematic campaign in order to get the President of an ally to publicly state he would open an investigation into Trumpâs political rival.
That Biden is a potential political rival is immaterial. The question raised as to whether Hunter Biden got the job for no other apparent reason than to have the potential to use his father for political favors is reason enough to conduct an investigation. Regardless whether that occurred or not is secondary to the overt appearance of conflict of interest of that arrangement. Do you not agree that the arrangement between Hunter Biden and Burisma was highly suspect? And how about the similar arrangement Hunter had in China? It stinks and you know it.
Nepotism, favoritism, cronyism⌠whatever you want to call it, I disagree with it. If you want to discuss the similar experiences of Jared and Ivanka, I would consider that similar.
However, the acts associated with Ukraine and Trump are very different than the nepotism you bring up. Trump had a goal of getting a public statement to benefit his political life. His personal lawyer set out to achieve this goal. The Ambassador to Ukraine was fired to facilitate this goal. This was a concerted effort to attain this goal. It was not just one phone call.It was not nepotism, it was influence buying. They didnât hire Hunter as a favor to Joe, they hired him to potentially influence Joe.
Burisma hired him. Iâm sure they did so to gain access. You donât think that happens with Trump? You donât think Jared and Ivanka benefit from their fatherâs position?
None of that absolves Trump of what he has done here. He conducted a systematic campaign to get a public statement from Ukraine. Are you claiming this was not something that took place?

WuWei:
Obama literally could have sent anyone else in the world. Anyone.
Did Biden threaten to withhold aid? Did he get his demand?
Did Trump get his favor?
Iâm not sure where you see plausible deniability?
The reason Obama sent Biden is because Biden has a ton of experience in foreign policy. That is the bloody reason he picked him as Veep, he needed an expert. He headed the Senate Foreign Relations committee, he was instrumental in the Balkans in stopping the genocide occurring there, he has a ton of experience in this regard.
And you hit on the difference, Biden was demanding that the chief corrupt prosecutor (and prosecutors in Ukraine have more power than judges) of Ukraine step down so anti-corruption efforts could begin. Because it wasnât happening AT ALL under Shokin. He was doing the right thing, at behest of the White House and the EU/IMF. He did a good job.
Trump wanted a personal favor while withholding funds he had no business withholding. There is a huge difference here and I am really trying to understand the equivalence you are casting here.
I donât get it, not one bit.
Thatâs not it.

kingarthur65:
Samm:
The crux of the issue is that Donald Trump conducted a sweeping and systematic campaign in order to get the President of an ally to publicly state he would open an investigation into Trumpâs political rival.
That Biden is a potential political rival is immaterial. The question raised as to whether Hunter Biden got the job for no other apparent reason than to have the potential to use his father for political favors is reason enough to conduct an investigation. Regardless whether that occurred or not is secondary to the overt appearance of conflict of interest of that arrangement. Do you not agree that the arrangement between Hunter Biden and Burisma was highly suspect? And how about the similar arrangement Hunter had in China? It stinks and you know it.
Nepotism, favoritism, cronyism⌠whatever you want to call it, I disagree with it. If you want to discuss the similar experiences of Jared and Ivanka, I would consider that similar.
However, the acts associated with Ukraine and Trump are very different than the nepotism you bring up. Trump had a goal of getting a public statement to benefit his political life. His personal lawyer set out to achieve this goal. The Ambassador to Ukraine was fired to facilitate this goal. This was a concerted effort to attain this goal. It was not just one phone call.It was not nepotism, it was influence buying. They didnât hire Hunter as a favor to Joe, they hired him to potentially influence Joe.
Exactly.

Thatâs the point. These sort of strong arm tactics in foreign affairs have never been an issue to anyone before.
Perhaps youâd like to give me an example of a US president doing something similar in the last, oh, century.
Shocker is I run a business so an immediate reply isnât always in the cards.
As far as what implicates Biden and his son? Well Biden did. If you cannot color between the lines here then IDK what to tell you.
Pull out your crayons and color in the missing parts. Exactly how do the Bidenâs benefit from this

WuWei:
The call is all there is. Now theyâll impeach him. Heâll go in the history books. Then heâll be reelected.
You must be a Republican. I hear those people havenât been able to read any of the opening statements by witnesses that were questioned in secrecy.
Fine, what else do you think you have?

WuWei:
And yet here you are. Have a nice evening.
Yes, here I am not playing the role of a defense attorney for politicians. I was under the assumption that they were suppose to serve us, not the other way around.
That Trump supporters go out of their way to defend every corrupt action and every lie that he makes is astounding.
And yet here you are.

Pull out your crayons and color in the missing parts. Exactly how do the Bidenâs benefit from this
Good advise. For you.
No he wasnât. He could have simply used a pocket veto or outright veto and forced the congress to override.
He wanted to try a softer approach since the prior sanctions hadnât accomplished anything and that is his right.
A perfectly viable strategy the congress simply disagreed with.
which people admitted that and how do you know?

No he wasnât. He could have simply used a pocket veto or outright veto and forced the congress to override.
He wanted to try a softer approach since the prior sanctions hadnât accomplished anything and that is his right.
A perfectly viable strategy the congress simply disagreed with.
Hadnât accomplished anything? Are you sure about that?