When a vaccine is viable and available...should the government, either federal or state, mandate it's use?

WuWei · April 13, 2020, 6:39pm

How does it? If you refuse to vaccinate and infect me, you just made your consequences mine.

Munimula1 · April 13, 2020, 6:42pm

I don’t think vaccinations can be forced, BUT Employers, colleges, local schools should all require proof of Covid-19 vaccination, or require a good reason why not- like immunosuppression.

Konssurvative1 · April 13, 2020, 6:49pm

Hell…I don’t know if I’ve ever truly been an adult?

Konssurvative1 · April 13, 2020, 6:50pm

And I have given that lots of thought lately. I have to protect my wife…who gets the shots.

WuWei · April 13, 2020, 6:52pm

If we get one that works.

SottoVoce · April 13, 2020, 6:53pm

That is also true. I’m speaking more to primary consequences.

WuWei · April 13, 2020, 6:54pm

They are my primary consequences.

mobulis · April 13, 2020, 7:00pm

Except you can spread the disease, so it’s not just you.

anon91495210 · April 13, 2020, 7:02pm

I’m not, to make them free would require forcing doctors into slavery.

Ok, I don’t mind them being government funded. Unlike the funding to Planned Parenthood, it would benefit the citizens.

SottoVoce · April 13, 2020, 7:06pm

If a non-vaccinated person infects another, that’s a secondary infection and secondary consequence. Pure definition.

WuWei · April 13, 2020, 7:09pm

SottoVoce:

WuWei:

SottoVoce:

WuWei:

SottoVoce:

WuWei:

SottoVoce:

That’ll never happen but hey, choose not to be vaccinated, choose to live with the consequences.

Should I have to live with your consequences?

If I voluntarily put myself at otherwise avoidable risk, I do not believe anyone but me is responsible for a bad outcome. If a competent (legal definition) adult puts themself at risk, it is their responsibility to manage the outcome. This does not apply to all situations, I realize that. This is one in which I personally believe it does.

How does it? If you refuse to vaccinate and infect me, you just made your consequences mine.

That is also true. I’m speaking more to primary consequences.

They are my primary consequences.

If a non-vaccinated person infects another, that’s a secondary infection and secondary consequence. Pure definition.

It’s my primary consequence.

conan · April 13, 2020, 7:12pm

My guess your local pharmaceutical store can administer your shots and bill the goverment if that’s the route the people choose. Which I wouldn’t have a problem with.

conan · April 13, 2020, 7:13pm

Correct me if I’m wrong…I would take the vaccination to prevent non vaccinated people from infecting me.

Isn’t that how it works. Not medical expert nor do I pretend to be one.

anon91495210 · April 13, 2020, 7:14pm

So I see arguments for mandatory vaccines. Just a question and maybe it’s not this simple but if the vaccine is effective, me not having the vaccine shouldn’t matter to you, right? I do get herd immunity to a degree but where do we draw the line? If an AIDS vaccine came around, should we ALL have to have it regardless of risk? The last time I had a Flu shot, I got sick as hell. While I get they don’t use the live virus anymore, I still don’t take them and haven’t had the Flu since 1990. Our company tried to mandate it but I’m not a huge fan of taking a shot without some damn compelling evidence that it’s fixing a real threat. I don’t even take pain killers unless there’s a damn good reason.

WuWei · April 13, 2020, 7:14pm

We should offer training so the man or woman of the house can do it themselves. It’s not magic.

anon91495210 · April 13, 2020, 7:15pm

I agree, I was just giving SF grief.

anon91495210 · April 13, 2020, 7:15pm

Yeah, NO. My wife isn’t giving me a shot, no telling WHAT’s going to be in that damn thing!!

H_Arendt · April 13, 2020, 7:17pm

Konssurvative1:

It is my opinion that in times of crisis, war, and pandemic/epidemic that the government of each state should be able to require steps that are for the good of all people of that state. I may be wrong, but it is just my opinion.

I AM ONLY INTERESTED IN DISCUSSION ON THIS SUBJECT. LET’S NOT TURN THIS INTO A TRUMP THIS OBAMA THAT…BUT WHAT ABOUT HILLARY AND BIDEN SNIFFS HAIR OF KIDS KIND OF THREAD.
I only want to know what people think.

I normally would be against the state or federal government telling us anything. But here’s the deal. I think if flu shots were mandated, we’d see the effect of the flu greatly diminished.

Jacobson v Massachusetts: It’s Not Your Great-Great-Grandfather’s Public Health Law - PMC

There had never been any doubt that, subject to constitutional limitations, states had authority to legislate with respect to all matters within their geographic boundaries, or to police their internal affairs, which Chief Justice Marshall referred to as the “police power.”24–26 During the 1800s, the Supreme Court confirmed that this power included the power to pass laws that promote the “health, peace, morals, education and good order of the people.”27–29

ustice Harlan stated the question before the Court: “Is this statute . . . inconsistent with the liberty which the Constitution of the United States secures to every person against deprivation by the State?”2(p25) Harlan confirmed that the Constitution protects individual liberty and that liberty is not “an absolute right in each person to be, in all times and in all circumstances, wholly free from restraint”:

There is, of course, a sphere within which the individual may assert the supremacy of his own will and rightfully dispute the authority of any human government, especially of any free government existing under a written constitution. But it is equally true that in every well-ordered society charged with the duty of conserving the safety of its members the rights of the individual in respect of his liberty may at times, under the pressure of great dangers, be subjected to such restraint, to be enforced by reasonable regulations, as the safety of the general public may demand.2(p29)

As one of the people here who is wary of big government, I would prefer to see an incentive system… with health care premiums/copays adjusted to account for healthier lifestyle choices (such as being vaccinated).

The flaw in this reasoning is that the COVID pandemic is falling disproportionately on those unlikely to have health insurance – in particular people in poorly compensated service jobs. I’m not sure how to invent their participation, or even overcome fear of seeking preventive treatment because of potential cost.

The issue how people in those jobs are compensated and insured are serious matters but should be the subject of a different thread.

conan · April 13, 2020, 7:18pm

Yes that’s possibility too. But I’m sure their is lots of red tape and other regulations that will prevent it.

conan · April 13, 2020, 7:20pm

My niece would administer the shots around my family. I trust her. Giving myself a shot? I’m not sure I can do that…but again I do stitch myself up. But I never stuck a needle into my self. I do cut open large splinters before to dig them out.