Yes… The largest part of the DOE is funding is for post secondary education.
So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Absolutely…
Jezcoe:Excuse me if I am wrong, but isn’t the US school system, for the most part, locally controlled and locally funded?
Yes… The largest part of the DOE is funding is for post secondary education.
And the majority of what funding local schools get is for Title I and Special Education Programs. Not for mainstream classes.
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.WW, PHS
So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Correct, however the local system still has to maintain infrastructure because parents could cancel private school attendance and return their children to public school at any time.
Happens all the time, kid gets kicked out of private school and the public school system must accept them.
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.WW, PHS
WuWei: Borgia_dude: WuWei: Borgia_dude: gooddad409: WildRose:No, the school is run by the church for the purposes of providing education to the students.
The Church doesn’t pay for the school’s operations, it is run with tuition payments made by their parents.
Gay rhetoric/propaganda is allowed in schools but Jesus cannot even be mentioned? How messed up is that???
Homosexuality is not a religion.
Yeah, it is laughable to think homosexuality is a religion. There are Christian homosexuals, Muslim homosexuals, atheist homosexuals…
Schools attempt to keep religion out of schools to abide by the Constitution. Human sexuality is part of the Health curriculum, as it should be.
The Constitution doesn’t say anything about keeping religion out of schools.
The Supreme Court says otherwise.
It also doesn’t spell out a right to privacy.
It emanates
Jezcoe:So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Correct, however the local system still has to maintain infrastructure because parents could cancel private school attendance and return their children to public school at any time.
Happens all the time, kid gets kicked out of private school and the public school system must accept them.
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.WW, PHS
So… and please correct me if I am wrong… the issue is a tad more complicated than allotting a dollar value per student and having that dollar value be spent wherever
That there has to still be a certain amount of spending into the public system regardless.
Optrader:So somehow, allowing all parents the same right to choose establishes a national religion which all must abide by?
Huh?
Parents can choose any religion they care to, and can choose any religion for their kids as well. They can also choose to send their kids to a religious school.
But once you pay your taxes, that money becomes teh public’s money,and our constitution prevents public money from being used to support any religious institution.
This isn’t really that complicated. You just seem mad about it.
The government allows tax deductions for all kinds of things. Please don’t pretend it couldn’t figure out how to give parents back what they contribute to education. It’s not that complicated, you liberals just hate the idea of any young impressionable mind missing out on being taught things like the history of perversion in America and the great contributions perverts have made to our nation.
Excuse me if I am wrong, but isn’t the US school system, for the most part, locally controlled and locally funded?
Schools are funded through a number of ways, but since we have a Secretary and Dept of education, and since we know that Michelle Obama was able to single handedly dictate school lunches, I think the federal governments involvement in public schools is, to say the least, massive.
Jezcoe:Excuse me if I am wrong, but isn’t the US school system, for the most part, locally controlled and locally funded?
Schools are funded through a number of ways, but since we have a Secretary and Dept of education, and since we know that Michelle Obama was able to single handedly dictate school lunches, I think the federal governments involvement in public schools is, to say the least, massive.
First… school lunch standards are through the Department of Agriculture.
Second… schools are funded mainly through local taxes and are under the control of local school boards
Jezcoe:So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Correct, however the local system still has to maintain infrastructure because parents could cancel private school attendance and return their children to public school at any time.
Happens all the time, kid gets kicked out of private school and the public school system must accept them.
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.
.
.WW, PHS
And going the other way private schools don’t have to accept everyone, correct?
WorldWatcher: Jezcoe:So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Correct, however the local system still has to maintain infrastructure because parents could cancel private school attendance and return their children to public school at any time.
Happens all the time, kid gets kicked out of private school and the public school system must accept them.
.
.
.
.WW, PHSSo… and please correct me if I am wrong… the issue is a tad more complicated than allotting a dollar value per student and having that dollar value be spent wherever
That there has to still be a certain amount of spending into the public system regardless.
About 10% of kids go to private schools. Instituting vouchers would result in an immediate 10% reduction in school funding without a single student transferring.
Jezcoe: WorldWatcher: Jezcoe:So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Correct, however the local system still has to maintain infrastructure because parents could cancel private school attendance and return their children to public school at any time.
Happens all the time, kid gets kicked out of private school and the public school system must accept them.
.
.
.
.WW, PHSSo… and please correct me if I am wrong… the issue is a tad more complicated than allotting a dollar value per student and having that dollar value be spent wherever
That there has to still be a certain amount of spending into the public system regardless.
About 10% of kids go to private schools. Instituting vouchers would result in an immediate 10% reduction in school funding without a single student transferring.
So that would mean a 10% reduction in funding with the same amount of kids in the system?
That doesn’t seem it would work out too well.
WorldWatcher: Jezcoe:So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Correct, however the local system still has to maintain infrastructure because parents could cancel private school attendance and return their children to public school at any time.
Happens all the time, kid gets kicked out of private school and the public school system must accept them.
.
.
.
.WW, PHSSo… and please correct me if I am wrong… the issue is a tad more complicated than allotting a dollar value per student and having that dollar value be spent wherever
That there has to still be a certain amount of spending into the public system regardless.
Everything is made more complicated when more and more bureaucrats get involved. The government has no business in education period.
Jezcoe: WorldWatcher: Jezcoe:So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Correct, however the local system still has to maintain infrastructure because parents could cancel private school attendance and return their children to public school at any time.
Happens all the time, kid gets kicked out of private school and the public school system must accept them.
.
.
.
.WW, PHSSo… and please correct me if I am wrong… the issue is a tad more complicated than allotting a dollar value per student and having that dollar value be spent wherever
That there has to still be a certain amount of spending into the public system regardless.
Everything is made more complicated when more and more bureaucrats get involved. The government has no business in education period.
So all education should be private?
Borgia_dude: Jezcoe: WorldWatcher: Jezcoe:So when one is insisting on diverting funds towards a “private” or a “religious” school they are diverting local funds out of the local system?
Correct, however the local system still has to maintain infrastructure because parents could cancel private school attendance and return their children to public school at any time.
Happens all the time, kid gets kicked out of private school and the public school system must accept them.
.
.
.
.WW, PHSSo… and please correct me if I am wrong… the issue is a tad more complicated than allotting a dollar value per student and having that dollar value be spent wherever
That there has to still be a certain amount of spending into the public system regardless.
About 10% of kids go to private schools. Instituting vouchers would result in an immediate 10% reduction in school funding without a single student transferring.
So that would mean a 10% reduction in funding with the same amount of kids in the system?
That doesn’t seem it would work out too well.
I’m even sympathetic to the idea of vouchers but the reality is…troubling.
As conservatives love to point out, if you subsidize something, like healthcare, and make it available to all then prices will rise and/or lines will increase.
Applying that to education has the costs of private schools increasing and/or them being more selective. Remember they don’t have to accept anyone if they don’t want to.
So likely prices to private institutions will rise. Perhaps beyond the cost of the voucher so then education becomes an additional cost to the family. I wonder who will pay that?
Add in the availability of the schools. Where will the private schools be located? Not in the worst neighborhoods so how do those kids get to the nearest private school? Cars? Buses? They cost money, time and commitment from parents that may lack those resources.
No, vouchers, given time, would devolve into subsidies for private schools for parents that need it the least.
Don’t get me wrong, I think some private schools would be created to serve troubled communities. But I doubt enough would be.
In the meantime, the public schools serving those communities would have to make do with less. Separated by income, and quite unequal.
Today’s schools are not perfect. Far from it. But vouchers are not the solution.
Far better to figure out how to fix our troubled public schools. We know public education by itself is not the problem. The suburban public schools test very well.
We’ve gotten a little away from the point I was making. While schools exemplify part of the issue, there are other questions that come to mind. Many, perhaps most of the government buildings and monuments have very Christian things as part of their construction. The ten commandments or other scriptures are inscribed prominently on display. If government must be absolutely 100 % separate from church, how could these Christian / biblical things been inscribed or displayed? Isn’t this an “establishment of religion”? Didn’t people back then know the constitution prohibits such things? Why haven’t these offensive buildings and monuments been torn down?
We’ve gotten a little away from the point I was making. While schools exemplify part of the issue, there are other questions that come to mind. Many, perhaps most of the government buildings and monuments have very Christian things as part of their construction. The ten commandments or other scriptures are inscribed prominently on display. If government must be absolutely 100 % separate from church, how could these Christian / biblical things been inscribed or displayed? Isn’t this an “establishment of religion”? Didn’t people back then know the constitution prohibits such things? Why haven’t these offensive buildings and monuments been torn down?
I think that it is fair to discuss what the funding scheme would look like and the results would be if a 100% voucher system were to be in place and private schools would then get public funding.
Zander: Optrader: Zander: Optrader: Samson_Corwell: Optrader: tnt: Optrader:It isn’t just a school issue. It’s other issues like government buildings not being able to display the ten commandments or nativity scenes. It’s teachers not being able to even mention Christ…
Why should my tax dollars be spent on silly religious symbols that mean nothing to me?
I’m not saying you should have to. Just allow other parents the option to use THEIR tax dollars to send their children to the school if their choice.
You have a serious misunderstanding. Money that is used to pay taxes isn’t yours any longer.
Yes, I actually do understand our tax system. Evidently you believe that once the government confiscates what they want, tax payers should shut the hell up and have no say or concern in how the government uses the confiscated money. Funny though, politicians seem awful preoccupied during their campaigns telling us what they want to use our tax money for. If it’s theirs, why do they bother??
Because they are campaigning, for votes.
Our vote, and lobbying efforts, are the only ways to influence how tax money is spent.
You don’t get to put sticky notes on your taxes for where you want the money spent.
Yes, as I said, I do know how the system works. My original question was, how does allowing parents the right to use their tax money to send their kids to a religious school of their choice constitute an “establishment of religion”?
Is there a way to ensure that specific parents’ tax money is spent on a religious school of their choice? Is that how vouchers work? (I am honestly asking; I do not know anything about vouchers or how they work).
If there is a system where parents could use their own tax dollars for it, without any tax dollars from others, I think I could be on board with that. I would just need to see/know the details.
Prior to public schools, it was local people in a community that took the responsibility of their kids education. They got together and hired a teacher and saw to their child’s ecucation. The government was not involved. It wasn’t until well into the 19th century that public schools began and as a total shock, they began in Massachusettes.
I realize it is no longer a practical or possible idea to do away with public schools, nor do I necessarily want to. But the truth is that since most countries can and do calculate the amount of money spent per student, that tells me it’s very possible to determine how much each tax payer shells out for public education. Despite the naysayers, it wouldn’t then be too difficult to allow tax payers a means to take their per student contribution to federal school funding, and allow them instead to use that money to directly pay the school of their choice for their own children’s education. This is essentially what vouchers do.
I have never understood why parents simply don’t demand the government give back control of their child’s education to them. Too many kids are stuck in bad schools because of this and one huge justification that Democrats use to deny the voucher system is by stoking the fear that one if your neighbors may choose a religious based school for their children.
Why does any parent, especially if they have children in a bad school, care what other parents choose for their children? It is the Democrats who have created this idea that it is unconstitutional. It isn’t. The constitution specifies that the government may not ESTABLISH a religion, meaning a state religion like they have in England.
I am asking how allowing tax payers to use that portion of the money they pay for education, to send their children to a religious school “establishes” a religion?
Thank you for taking the time to write that response. It was helpful and informative. I am at work so can only offer limited reply (for now).
As long as none of my tax dollars are spent on running a private Catholic school, I don’t have a problem with it. I do think that you may be interpreting “establish” in a pretty narrow way. I’ve never done a deep dive into the debates over that language, but the case law has developed to apply it quite broadly.
Nothing to do with being a liberal. I just hate the idea of the government supporting a religious institution.