WAR in Ukraine, Putin approves initiation of special military operation (Part 2)

Do you believe that Austria is a sovereign nation? Its constitution created as a condition for the end of allied occupation in 1955 requires it to remain neutral.

Putin does not believe that Ukrainian sovereignty gives it the right to join NATO or to host NATO bases, which he believes would constitute an existential threat to Russia.

The US has invaded Latin American countries many times based on similar concerns. The US has bases in Iraq and Syria over the objections of the national governments. The justification is based on alleged US and Israeli security concerns.

Clearly US concerns about national sovereignty are highly selective.

Austria is Western aligned. They use NATO standard ammunition (SS109 or 5.56x45mm), NATO compliant aircraft, NATO magazines for rifles, participate in NATO exercises, and are under the US nuclear umbrella.

When I was a lad in the British Army we used 7.62 ammo which was a real round compared to 5.56 :grinning:. I remember when we transistoned to the 5.56 SA80 (yes I know SA80 is an entire weapons system) but thats what we called the rifle.

Operationally the SA80 was far less reliable and obviously has less stopping power. In early field tests the plastic would melt when it came into contact with issued insect repellant LOL. When parts broke or fell off they said it was user error :grinning:. Though I understand the mark II version fixed a lot of these reliability issues. I never used it so cannot comment.

However I read somewhere that the SLR 7.62 rifle is making a comeback in the British Army, not sure how true that is because the whole reason to adopt 5.56 was to come in line with the rest of NATO.

I did like the modern webbing and bergen that came with the SA80.

Wow that was a trip down memory lane for me . Thanks @TheRedComet

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Why do you continue to overlook the glaring differences between Russia and the US. Russia invaded and is annexing territory from Ukraine. I still haven’t gotten a straight answer that you support that. I’m sure you do, but why? Why is Russia allowed to annex territory from its neighbors?

And the whole Austria thing. Give me a break. You had to stretch a lot for that one. Anyone going to invade Austria and annex them if they pick a side? They can probably change their constitution tomorrow and no one would care.

If you ever get a chance watch Ian McCollum’s video on Forgotten Weapons about the L85. It’s friggin great. Especially the comment feed.

Comment that stuck out to me was a guy saying “hey now, the SA80 saved my dad’s life. He was in Desert Storm. The SA80 was so unreliable that he went on to have a long proud career in the Iraqi Army.”

I’ve held a mockup one before. It’s a cool rifle. But even the deactivated mockup felt like it would fall apart if you put 50 rounds through it.

PS a buddy of mine has a pre-import ban FAL, basically the metric version of the L1A1. That’s a sweet shooting rifle. I wouldn’t have wanted to give it up either.

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Which is closer?

Estonia is 100 miles from St. Petersburg.

It’s been a nato member for 20 years

From what I see Russia has much more justification in invading Ukraine than the US has had for any of its overseas wars since the Kennedy. But then again, I still believe that Kennedy was justified in getting the Soviets to remove missiles from Cuba.

I once supported the Iraq wars. Not that I had a strong opinion at the time, but my default was to trust the government.

Now I believe that US wars since Vietnam were mistakes based on government lies and misinformation. My default position is that the US government is lying until proven otherwise. That is especially true for justification for overseas wars.

If we are really concerned about US security, we should concentrate on getting control over the southern border. The admission that China was training troops in Canada before the 2020 election is a real concern as well.

But not Moscow. Ukraine border is about 100 miles closer to Moscow than any other NATO nation.

Estonia and Latvia both border Russia and have been members for 20 years Finland is now a nato member

St. Petersburg is the second biggest Russian city

The nato nonsense is nonsense.

Finland has a bigger border with Russia than Ukraine.

Building new NATO bases in Estonia and stationing nuclear weapons there would not improve the security of Estonia.

New Russian or Chinese bases with nuclear weapons in Cuba would not improve Cuba’s security.

We would have almost certainly had WW3 if Kennedy had followed his advisors and invaded Cuba during the missile crisis. Unknown to the US, Soviet forces in Cuba had orders to use tactical nukes against a US invasion force.

Doesn’t matter.

What’s you opinion of CATO institution?

Yes, why did the dems bomb Libya into chaos and slavery? Many people are finally figuring out elected Dems cause war and poverty all over the world.

How can I make this any clearer…Russia has annexed and is trying to annex land from it’s neighbor. How can you justify that?

True. Largely because they can make artillery shells faster than the west can. What’s up with that?

I thought Russia was a gas station with nukes according to the leftist media chant from 2020.

So, what the solution?
But as someone else said Russia has more cause than we had in Libya.

Israel has annexed land from its neighbors, and the US recognizes that. The US guaranteed the sovereignty of Yugoslavia, but it has recognized NATO-occupied Kosovo as an independent country over the objections of the government in Belgrade.

Why are we willing to spend billions defending Ukraine’s national sovereignty, while spending billions to deny it elsewhere?

Personally I would prefer if we went back to 19th century justifications like “white man’s burden” and “manifest destiny”. They may have been racist or jingoistic, but at least they were more honest.

Why didn’t it matter? Estonia is right there.

They are a think tank. They are subject to all the same biases that any think tank is.

NATO is the great enemy of Russia because its existence suggests a unified Europe which in turn prevents Russia from being aggressive.

The expansion of nato isn’t a real thing for Russia in Ukraine. It’s an excuse. It’s the west in general. Maidan and Obama changing Ukranian leadership is a much more important reason than nato ever was.

You’re still assuming that NATO…or more precisely European intentions are pure.

That’s naive IMO. Very naive.

I don’t think they are pure at all. Why would i?

They are a military alliance. They can’t be pure.

seems to me you have contradiction on your hands than.