The critprogs and many others call Putin a fascist.
It’s difficult to find a definition of “fascism”, but there seems to be a popular opinion that it on the opposite end of a spectrum-communism/socialism being the other end. Perhaps even the polar opposite of communism.
To my question:
When exactly did Putin, born and raised a communist, become a fascist?
I think it is an overlapping spectrum
But anyway Soviet communism stopped being communism just a bit after Krushev even possibly breZhnev. By the time the mid 80s came about the Soviet model system was collapsing
By the 1990s privatization kicked in and that’s when oligarchs came about.
Putin is an authoritarian robber Barron. He controls the oligarchs but he is dependent on them
He is nationalist if not ultra nationalist. He does not allow for any opposition. There is def subordination of individual interest to the state
He fits the profile perfectly
But again the spectrum was never linear. It was always a venn diagram
when the US population was sufficiently ignorant … it took a few years for the nationalized education system to take hold and bring us utopia
It folds back on itself?
Interesting. If communism and fascism overlap, what about socialism?
Yes it folds at the ends of the spectrum
I am not sure. There is confusion (including from me) as to what constitutes a political and what constitutes an economic system.
Socialism and communism whole scale cannot be implemented without some form of authoritarianism if not outright fascism.
However if we use the broad definition of socialism which is the government being involved with private enterprise then authoritarianism is still present but diminishes.
This seems about right.
Did he say communism and fascism overlap?
I read the post as, Russian communism was coopted by authoritarians.
What is the definition of ‘fascism’ we are working with here?
Well, since our government is for and by the people, I’m not sure it’s fair to say things are implemented by authoritarians.
In my mind, authoritarians are not elected officials.
Could be semantics though.
I’ve always thought of Communism and Socialism as Kissing Cousins myself.
They are similar in that the state is in involved in production, but communism also involves the state in consumption.
Fascist, Nazi, Racist, Anti-Semite, Communist, all terms that once had meaning are now meaningless and simply fill in the blanks for - Anything I don’t like is __________!
They can’t tell the difference between totalitarian leaders and their political motivations. Fascism is just the universal slur of the day.
Communism is always authoritarian.
On a technical level socialism is a step on the path to communism.
Basically Marx theorized that states go through defined economic (and by extension sociological) phases.
First, there is the hunter-gatherer society. Marx considered these societies pretty much communist.
Second comes feudalism. Where societal exclusion begins. Basically one particular hunter-gather realizes he’s smarter than the rest and crowns himself nobility and creates property.
Next, there is the dictatorship of the bourgeois. Which creates capitalism.
Then once the workers are oppressed enough by their capitalist overlords comes the revolution.
Following this socialism as applied by the dictatorship of the proletariat, which crushes all of the former ruling class and creates the conditions for communism.
Finally, there is world communism. Which is where the dictatorship of the proletariat dissolves itself and society simply functions in a communist mindset. “From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.”
What made Marx and Engels stand out from other socialist thinkers of their era was that they were anti-utopian. Most socialist thinkers believed that the path to socialism and latter communism could be done bloodlessly and through democratic processes. Everyone could be on the bus basically.
Marx rejected this. He postulated that once the revolution happens you’ve got to kick the former ruling class to the curb. Otherwise you get counter-revolution. They can’t get on the bus. They must be destroyed.
The issue is that Marx didn’t really completely develop the ideology. It’s mostly just theory. The communist himself must fill in the blanks and make it practical for that society. It’s why there’s so many different flavors of it. Marxism-Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism, Castroism, and that’s not even getting into the truly bizarre flavors of it, like Anarcho-Communism (developed and postulated by Bukanin, a rival of Marx who was expressedly opposed to the Marxist interpretation).
In practice, agreed. They pretend to have elections, but…again, in practice, yep.
But I don’t think you can say the same thing for socialism if it’s administered by elected officials, forming a government by and for the people.
In theory one can do that.
The one thing I agree with Marx about is that utopia is some nonsense. You can’t bring the oppressive class on the bus with you to the next stage. You always get counter revolution in return.
So in practical terms capitalism to socialism to communism will always be violent and authoritarian. Many socialists of the 1800s thought as you do. That it could be done through democracy. But reality proves that it cannot be. Because utopia is a myth. And because those with power will never give up that power to some smelly revolutionaries without a fight.
That was Marx’s entire point. He accepted the reality of what revolution requires. And postulated about it. Engels too. Their ideology is violent because it requires violence. The building of each stage is done in the blood of those who lived before.
Russian communism was authoritarian from the very start. It wasn’t cooped. It turned out exactly the way Marx and other realists thought it would.
No, it’s the same thing. The elites who advocate it impose its edicts upon the population through the police powers of the state.
pretend to have elections? but more people voted for Biden than any other election in American history… they really really did and Trump was every expletive imaginable for suggesting that Biden’s election was anything but pure perfection
Also known as the Dictatorship of the Proletariat and planting the seeds.
The one major modification Lenin made to orthodox Marxism was establishing the concept of the Vanguard. Lenin was of the opinion that the working class as a whole would never rise up in mass rebellion because the bourgeoisie could simply improve the worker’s lives a little bit at a time. Placating their material needs.
So Lenin basically said we have to create a small well disciplined cadre of true revolutionaries. Then we can impose the dictatorship of the proletariat ourselves. We control who gets to ride on the bus.
