Their citizenship.
Allan
How do I do that? 
By proving THEIR parents’ citizenship.
It’s turtles all the way down.
LOL… I’m guessing the birthright folks haven’t really thought this through…
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Well, if you know who your mother is, you may want to start there.
JWK
But how do I determine her citizenship?
So has he done it yet?
He’s going to get right on to talking about it in October 2020.
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What on earth are you talking about? Congressional Record?
The debates covering the adoption of the 14th Amendment are not found in the Congressional Record.
They are found in the Congressional Globe.
Here is an example documenting the meaning of the First Section of the Amendment as expressed by those who were in attendance of the 39th Congress. In discussing the proposed 14th Amendment, Senator Howard explains the clear intentions of the 14th Amendment as follows:
The first amendment is to section one, declaring that all "persons born in the United States and Subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the States wherein they reside. I do not propose to say anything on that subject except that the question of citizenship has been fully discussed in this body as not to need any further elucidation, in my opinion. This amendment which I have offered is simply declaratory of what I regard as the law of the land already, that every person born within the limits of the United States, and subject to their jurisdiction, is by virtue of natural law and national law a citizen of the United States. This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. It settles the great question of citizenship and removes all doubt as to what persons are or are not citizens of the United States. This has long been a great desideratum in the jurisprudence and legislation of this country.(my emphasis) see: Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866) pg. 2890
Later, and after the question was repeatedly asked as to who is and who is not a citizen of the United States, Mr. TRUMBULL responds as follows SEE: page 2893, Congressional Globe, 39th Congress (1866)
1st column halfway down
“The provision is, that “all persons born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens.” That means “subject to the complete jurisdiction thereof.” . . . “What do we mean by “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States?” Not owing allegiance to anybody else. That is what it means.”
Mr. Trumbull later emphasizes in crystal clear language that: “It cannot be said of any Indian who owes allegiance, partial allegiance if you please, to some other Government that he is “subject to the jurisdiction of the United States”
Mr. JOHNSON then rises to say: [b][I]“…there is no definition in the Constitution as it now stands as to citizenship. Who is a citizen of the United States is an open question….there is no definition as to how citizenship can exist in the United States except through the medium of a citizenship in a State.
“Now, all that this amendment provides is, that all persons born in the United States and not subject to some foreign Power–for that, no doubt, is the meaning of the committee who have brought the matter before us–shall be considered as citizens of the United States.”[/I][/b] …he then continues “…the amendment says that citizenship may depend upon birth, and I know of no better way to give rise to citizenship than the fact of birth within the territory of the United States, born of parents who at the time were subject to the authority of the United States.”
And then there is John A. Bingham, chief architect of the 14th Amendments first section who considered the proposed national law on citizenship as “simply declaratory of what is written in the Constitution, that every human being born within the jurisdiction of the United States of parents not owing allegiance to any foreign sovereignty is, in the language of your Constitution itself, a natural born citizen…” Cong. Globe, page 1291(March 9, 1866) middle column half way down.
And so, a baby born to a foreign national mother while on American soil is not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States within the meaning of the 14th Amendment, nor becomes a citizen of the United States upon birth.
JWK
The Congressional Globe was the reporter of the Congressional Record, 1833-1873.
As for your cut-and-paste, you’re misreading it.
This will not, of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners, aliens, who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers accredited to the Government of the United States
See those commas there? It’s not a list - it’s a compound sentence referring to a single class of people - foreign aliens who belong to the families of ambassadors or foreign ministers.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
The Congressional Record began publication in 1873, during the 43 Congress, years after the making of the 14th Amendment which occurred under the 39th Congress. The “Congressional Globe” Debates and Proceedings was published between 1833-1873
JWK
You misunderstand.
Whatever you want to call the reporter, it’s still the Congressional Record - a record of what Congress does - as required by the Constitution. Whether they want to call it the “Globe”, or “Register of Debates in Congress” is irrelevant.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
The Congressional Record began publication in 1873, during the 43 Congress, years after the making of the 14th Amendment which occurred under the 39th Congress. The “Congressional Globe” Debates and Proceedings was published between 1833-1873
JWK
I understood you perfectly. You confused the “Congressional Globe” with the “Congressional Record”, and now you are unwilling to admit your mistake.
JWK
No, I didn’t. The Congressional Globe and the Congressional Record are the same thing.
But by all means, continue wasting time with your pedantry. Maybe if you keep it up long enough, people won’t notice that you ignored the actual content of my post.
You are wrong. They are two different publications.
The “Congressional Record” began publication in 1873, during the 43 Congress.
The “Congressional Globe”was published between 1833-1873
I see you are still unwilling to admit your mistake.
JWK
…And I see you’re still ignoring my post.
JWK
American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance a maternity ward for the poverty stricken populations of other countries who invade America’s borders to give birth.
Quoted for truth. Those who use this quote to argue against birthright citizenship don’t understand grammar or Senator Howard’s position. Same with Trumbull’s quote. Trumbull literally argued that children born here to non-naturalized immigrants were citizens.
You didn’t respond to my earlier reply so thought I would respond again… I know who my mother is so is that enough or do I need to determine if she was a citizen when I was born? How do I determine whether she was a citizen when I was born?
If you can’t figure it out, hire a lawyer or go to the library and try to figure it out.
