The Wall debate makes zero sense to me


#1

Help me understand this. I really don’t get it.

President Trump promised on the campaign trail that we’re going to build a wall across the Mexico-U.S border and MEXICO was going to pay for it.

There are many head scratches here:

  1. Why are we spending any money on the wall? Mexico was suppose to foot the bill, not us. If I were a Trump supporter, i would be mad at Trump. He promised that another country would pay for the wall, and now he wants you to pay for it. That’s like giving somebody a free vacation and then giving them a bill once they leave the resort.

  2. When Trump said build a wall, did he mean the ENTIRE U.S-Mexico border or only the places where it was legal to build the wall? That point was never made clear.

  3. We already have a wall at the U.S Mexico border. Illegal crossings have gone down, not up. Sign me up if we want to improve on the wall AND come up with a better system of tracking down drug traffickers, gang members, and mules. Obviously, just upgrading the wall is not going to do it. What is Trump proposing we do about people who dig underneath walls, drug mules, and use planes to transport drugs and guns?

I am trying to be as neutral as possible. Just trying to understand what we’re really fighting over. The Dems have said they are willing to put more money into border security, they just think Trump’s wall idea is too costly and completely ineffective.


#2

I like this thread. You are asking good questions. I hope this thread gets useful traction, instead of getting buried by tangent, innuendo, and insanity.


#3

Reportedly Trump’s wall was a campaign gimmick aids came up with so he’d remember to talk about immigration. For reals. I didn’t make that up.


#4

Sadly the latest stalemate is another indication that government is doing its job, but trying to finger point at the other party.

President Trump’s campaign promise of Mexico paying for the building of the wall was shallow campaign rhetoric. It was effective in being used as a rally cry for his supporters.

Waiting until the end of the 2018 year to introduce wall funding was, in my opinion, a Republican tactic to pin any blame on Democrats, who were assuming control of the House.

Sadly, this stalemate is affecting many Americans and institutions. And the pigheadedness of our government is only making it worse. There is no compromise. We live in a time where government and parties only care for “victories”, and not caring for America or Americans.

The building of the wall will not deter people who will use other means to cross. Or, they will apply for visas, then simply over-stay after their visas expire. No one wants to discuss the number of folks living here with expired visas.


#5

The only sane thing to do is open the government with the same funding levels as last year. We can argue about everything else later. I think we all agree that people are being hurt and they shouldn’t be.

Open the government Trump!


#6

I agree with that point.

I was reading yesterday that TSA agents were beginning to call in sick. This is a serious hindrance on our national security. I would think that our government would be made aware of this issue and realize this needs to be addressed.

Isn’t the pigheadedness over funding is due to national security?


#7

I was trying to talk about that yesterday, but most of the people on the forum ignored my point. TSA agents secretly striking could cause a national emergency. This is Trump causing the very problem he says he wants to fix. It’s stupid.


#8

Yep… apparently Roger Stone’s doing.

For something so stupid with stupid origins it has become really important.

Future historians will look back at this era and wonder if there is a huge joke being pulled on them.


#9

The OP asks some really good questions. The timing of this strikes me as really odd. If Trump was going to dig his heels in the sand and demand Congress fund the wall, it would have made a lot more sense to do so when he had a Republican House and Senate. Now, he only has the Senate.

But, as the OP mentioned, if Trump is going to be a man of his word and have Mexico fund the wall, he is talking to the wrong people. Congress has no jurisdiction on how Mexico spends their money. They can’t legislate that Mexico cough up the wall funding. Mexico is a sovereign nation. Further, any demand for US taxpayers for said funding is breaking his promise.


#10

And TSA hasn’t even missed a paycheck yet…


#11

If I were TSA, I’d call in sick.


#12

It’s going to get ugly. I know CBP agents who are worried.


#13

an illeg alien in arizona is twice as likely to commit a crime than a natiral born citizen

90% of all fentynol and heroin come across the southern border

there are 56000 illegal aliens in the fed pen

illeg aliens cost tax payers 135 billion every year

can we agree there is a problem on the southern border?


#14

In general, undocumented aliens are statistically less likely to commit crimes than citizens. Most drug traffic over the border is through points of entry. The flow of illegals over the border is currently negative, so a wall would keep them in, not out. The number of illegals in the country is currently at a decades-long low. The only emergency is in the orange idiot’s fever dream.


#15

Thinkingman,

I am so glad you responded, seeing as how, you support the President and all.

Unfortunately, though, you didn’t respond to any of my questions/concerns.

Nobody disagrees that we need to reform our immigration system and upgrade border security.

My questions revolve around: Why are we paying a dime for the wall? Does Trump support a wall across the entire U.S-Mexico border or just most of the border? What is Trump’s plan for border security, other than upgrading the wall we already have?


#16

Most of the illegal drugs that come from the South are smuggled in through legal checkpoints.

I would suspect if the government is truly interested in curtailing this, they (the government) would spent the money on better drug detection techniques instead of some debt-increasing wall.

The $135 billion you state, that seems a bit high. Is there a government study that mentions this? I would like to read it. Do you know what percentage of this money is from folks whose visas have expired yet continue to live here?


#17

Right, and that’s why framing the debate as wall = secured borders is false.

If Trump is simply asking for a wall and nothing else, then he’s not doing a good job of protecting the border.


#18

i cant keep active in this discussion right now but will be checking in here and there only because you seem interested in serious discussion

my first post established that at the very least we can agree there is a huge problem with those aspects at that border.

a wall is but one part of a system of good border security. but an impt one. there are vast tunnels built across the border some equipped with rails and solar powered lights! this is proof that great effort and expense is taken to avoid checkpoints. of course walls dont help block tunnels but the overall point is any way around checkpoints will be sought no matter the effort. also proving the wall is not the only answer. but a necessary part. i wish the admin was better at communicating that


#19

It’s necessary in some areas and not necessary in others. We already have miles of border wall. We need other upgrades rather than more miles of border wall.


#20

100% agreed. I am not comprehending on what people actually want.

Building a wall across the ENTIRE U.S-Mexico border is an improbable and extremely costly endeavor. We essentially would have to FORCE people to sell their homes and get rid of U.S Environmental laws around the Rio Grande and cancel our agreement with Mexico.

I am under the mindset of, if takes 10 billion to upgrade our border security system and put up proper fencing, I wouldn’t mind at all paying a little more in taxes. This is important. But Trump hasn’t really detailed how long or wide the fence should be or how he’s going to bypass government agreements, pay out land previous administrations couldn’t do (We’re talking Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, and Obama) or have the Mexico pay for at least some of the costs.

Other politicians who said, “I agree with Trump on the wall” in the past, have all said, “I never said physical wall. I meant a metaphoric wall”.