The "national emergency" in the context of Constitutional Governance


#232

I never claimed they were the most overturned. I claimed they were overturned the majority of the time. Last time I checked, 79% is a clear majority.


#233

Trump isn’t ruling by fiat.


#234

Well, thats not true either. The vast majority of 9th Citcuit cases (as with every other circuit as well) are not overturned, because the vast majority of cases are not granted cert by SCOTUS.


#235

Actually they were overturned 61% of the time which is under the average rate of 68%…

Of course those are just the cases that get appealed to scotus…

If you count the reversal rate compared to the entirety of all the cases they ruled on, it is well under 50% which is not a majority…


#236

Even trump admitted there was no emergency, national.or otherwise and that he was doing it because he is a spoiled manchild…


#237

Yes but it was implied that they were the most overturned circuit.

They are clearly not, which was my point.

to be totally accurate they are overturned a lot but 2 other circuits have higher rates of being overturned.

Allan

Allan


#238

Sure he is.

He flat out said the emergency he declared is not an emergency…he simply wants to build the wall faster by bypassing Congress.

That’s an attempt to rule by fiat.

Same reasoning Obama gave for DACA…he didn’t want to go to the hassle of trying to get Congress to make law…so he acted.


#239

The vast, vast majority of cases the 9th circuit rules on are not overturned.


#240

did he not issue a national emergency and divert funds.

: an authoritative or arbitrary order : [decree] government by fiat

LOL. denial is a river in Egypt

Allan


#241

We’ve already beat this one to death. Trump declared a national emergency within the authority granted to him by congress. That isn’t ruling by fiat.

We both have differing opinions. No need to rehash it again.


#242

Actually he didn’t admit there was no emergency. You are welcome to provide a link showing where he made that statement.


#243

Nobody is saying that he cant declare an emergency.

that clearly is constitutional.

but it is governing by order. :slight_smile:

Allan


#244

You’ve lost me.

Governing by order??? :confused:


#245

exactly. you know what you criticized Obama for.

Now trump is doing EXACTLY the same but its okay in your book because he has got a R behind his name.

Allan


#246

DACA order bad

wall order good.

Allan


#247

He did.

He said “I didn’t have to do this. I just want the wall built faster”.

By defintion, if you don’t have to declare a national emergency, by definition there is no national emergency.

Parse it all you want…I bet the more “Constitutional” judges in the courts that will hear this will take notice of that.


#248

Abuse of power hardly started with Donald Trump. The problem us also not limited to the office of the president either.

What is your solution to a Congress that steps outside the Constitution or a supreme Court that does likewise? Congress, the Senate and SCOTUS have all overstepped their bounds or have ignored the Constitution entirely many times.

You state that Congress is supreme because they are directly elected by and are accountable to the people. This was the intent of the founding fathers. Well, the founding fathers never intended for the government to take over the education of our children, thus gaining control over the message, and the media. Most Americans today have absolutely no idea what the Constitution says, what it’s purpose is or what the three branches of government even are, let alone which one is supposed to be supreme.

To say that conservatives should reject Donald Trump’s actions because of the constitution is great- only if the other branches were acting according to the Constitution too, which they aren’t, and haven’t been almost since the beginning. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If it weren’t for corruption in all branches of our government, we wouldn’t need someone to “Make America Great” again, we never would have lost our greatness to begin with.

Build the wall…


#249

That’s exactly what this is-it’s the standard set when right-wing pundits constantly complained that Obama was ruling by fiat with his pen and phone.


#250

Well i know of one justice who is very supportive of an unaccountable president. The rest? Well see.


#251

Well you are wrong, the 9th isn’t over turned a majority of the time.

I know the linked data is old but it showes the principle of where you statement is incorrect.

In 2008 the 9th terminated 12,373 cases. In that year the SCOTUS heard 18 cases from the 9th reversing on 16. The 9th had over 4,000 MORE cases then any other Circuit Court.

16/12373 = 0.0012931382849753 * 100 = 0.13% of the cases terminated by the court were reversed by the SCOTUS.

https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/migrated/intelprop/magazine/LandslideJan2010_Hofer.authcheckdam.pdf
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