The decline of the middle class and the causes of it

[conan]

I’m still driving my 1986 Chevy Silverado that I bought new over 32 years ago.

Been to the moon and back and now coming up to the moon again.

Not sure she will make it back thou.

[Smyrna]

@Cynic

I love that my FJ is actually a classic now, damn thing is going up in value!

Yep…it seems to be going the way of the Land Cruiser.

[madasheck]

The decline of unions has been a huge factor in the decline of the middle class. When regular people were making more money, the economy and the country as a whole were doing much better. Not so now when you have the wealth concentrated at the top 1 percent.

[madasheck]

@zantax

@Guilds

Fair enough.

If we look at the strength of unions, and their decline since Reagan, and the Republican party not supporting them, I think that plays a role in the illegal workers.

Strong unions would be able to keep that activity to a minimum. But corps (with the help of Republican legislation) have minimized unions effect on skilled and manual labor. Corps will always want to pay the least they can to get the work done, to maximize profits.

Which reminds me, that our worshiping the next quarterly results, so the boards and shareholders are happy…is also a key factor. Always trying to cut costs, to maximize profits, is short sighted. Sure, it make those at the top quite wealthy, and corps profits are at record levels. But sadly, very little is trickling down.

Uh no, unions are pro-illegals.

from Immigration policies of American labor unions - Wikipedia

Two of the most vocal opponents of restrictionist immigration policy towards illegal immigrants were the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), and the Union of Needletrades, Industrial and Textile Employees (UNITE).[27] The Service Employees International Union, representing principally building trades, state and health care workers, grew from 650,000 members in 1980 to over 2 million members in 2009,[28] in large part by organizing immigrant labor, many of whom worked illegally. Justice for Janitors, perhaps the union’s most seminal and successful campaign, highlights the union’s organization of immigrant labor.[29] UNITE was born of a merger between the ILGWU and the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union (ACTWU), both of which have strong histories of opposition to restrictive immigration policies.[30]

The AFL-CIO increasingly believed illegal immigrants to be much harder to organize than legal immigrants, as their fear of deportation and lack of legal recourse make them much easier to exploit by employers in order to prevent the unionization of their work force. Therefore, believing restricting the flow of illegal immigrants to be impossible, the AFL-CIO began to support policies favoring the legalization of illegal immigrants. One such policy was the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, which granted amnesty to an estimated 3 million illegal aliens.[31]

The AFL-CIO also came to see restrictions in legal immigration as ineffective starting in the early 1980s, believing that restricting legal immigration does not actually reduce the number of immigrants entering the country; instead, it simply creates greater illegal immigration. They therefore favored, and continue to favor reforming United States immigration policy to allow for the entry of greater numbers of legal immigrants, while providing amnesty to illegal immigrants.[32]

Find a source other than Wikipedia, zanny. Wiki can be edited by anyone. It’s not credible.

[mwevans1234]

@Cynic

Yeah, people who buy cars as “status symbols” that do not fit their very obvious income level just make me

My kids’ nanny drove a more expensive car than me…

But questionable automotive decisions aside, that woman brought me leftover home cooked Ghanaian meals that were unbelievable and didn’t totally screw up the kids…

[Smyrna]

@madasheck

he decline of unions

When the jobs were sent to Mexico and over seas…the need for unions declined. The basis used to justify shipping those jobs out of the country was the cost of labor. The cost of labor was exacerbated by the unions and here “we” go…round and round…and which came first, the chicken or the egg?

[madasheck]

@Smyrna

@madasheck

he decline of unions

When the jobs were sent to Mexico and over seas…the need for unions declined. The basis used to justify shipping those jobs out of the country was the cost of labor. The cost of labor was exacerbated by the unions and here “we” go…round and round…and which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Unions also took huge hits in membership numbers from new negotiated contracts. They had less stability as time went on because management negotiated exclusions to membership and basically tried to negotiate them out of existence. And in many ways, they were successful.

[zantax]

@madasheck

@zantax

@Guilds

Fair enough.

If we look at the strength of unions, and their decline since Reagan, and the Republican party not supporting them, I think that plays a role in the illegal workers.

Strong unions would be able to keep that activity to a minimum. But corps (with the help of Republican legislation) have minimized unions effect on skilled and manual labor. Corps will always want to pay the least they can to get the work done, to maximize profits.

Which reminds me, that our worshiping the next quarterly results, so the boards and shareholders are happy…is also a key factor. Always trying to cut costs, to maximize profits, is short sighted. Sure, it make those at the top quite wealthy, and corps profits are at record levels. But sadly, very little is trickling down.

Uh no, unions are pro-illegals.

from Immigration policies of American labor unions - Wikipedia

Two of the most vocal opponents of restrictionist immigration policy towards illegal immigrants were the Service Employees International Union (SEIU), and the Union of Needletrades, Industrial and Textile Employees (UNITE).[27] The Service Employees International Union, representing principally building trades, state and health care workers, grew from 650,000 members in 1980 to over 2 million members in 2009,[28] in large part by organizing immigrant labor, many of whom worked illegally. Justice for Janitors, perhaps the union’s most seminal and successful campaign, highlights the union’s organization of immigrant labor.[29] UNITE was born of a merger between the ILGWU and the Amalgamated Clothing and Textile Workers Union (ACTWU), both of which have strong histories of opposition to restrictive immigration policies.[30]

The AFL-CIO increasingly believed illegal immigrants to be much harder to organize than legal immigrants, as their fear of deportation and lack of legal recourse make them much easier to exploit by employers in order to prevent the unionization of their work force. Therefore, believing restricting the flow of illegal immigrants to be impossible, the AFL-CIO began to support policies favoring the legalization of illegal immigrants. One such policy was the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986, which granted amnesty to an estimated 3 million illegal aliens.[31]

The AFL-CIO also came to see restrictions in legal immigration as ineffective starting in the early 1980s, believing that restricting legal immigration does not actually reduce the number of immigrants entering the country; instead, it simply creates greater illegal immigration. They therefore favored, and continue to favor reforming United States immigration policy to allow for the entry of greater numbers of legal immigrants, while providing amnesty to illegal immigrants.[32]

Find a source other than Wikipedia, zanny. Wiki can be edited by anyone. It’s not credible.

See those little numbers at the end of the paragraphs? They are called citations. If you follow them you can find the original sources. Why, do you want to claim unions are anti-immigration?

Is this more to your liking?

Labor Unions Move To Protect Immigrants, Regardless Of Legal Status

[Drs]

Organizing migrant workers does not harm workers. For instance most North Americans do not typically want to do farm labor but that does not mean those workers should not make reasonable wages and not be victimized by unscrupulous employers.

[Smyrna]

@Drs

Organizing migrant workers does not harm workers. For instance most North Americans do not typically want to do farm labor but that does not mean those workers should not make reasonable wages and not be victimized by unscrupulous employers.

I wonder if that happens, then when illegal immigrants outside of the union will work for less, what will then happen? Will this be a case where “illegal” should be enforced?

[conan]

If they are illegally working they gave up their right to be represented.

[Drs]

Government did trade deals to benefit companies. Trade deals that would have been about real competition.

Trump doesn’t really want better money for working people. For example in the ongoing NAFTA talks Canada wanted US workers to make better wages to cut down on jobs being moved into Red states with low. The US said no.

[Drs]

Simple solution just call in and report it.

[Drs]

I will go with that when it becomes illegal to own businesses or strict punishment for hiring people illegally.

[Impenitent]

all these union manufacturing jobs…

manufacturers have gone to places with lower taxes and no unions…

it must be the republicans fault…

[Smyrna]

@Drs

Government did trade deals to benefit companies. Trade deals that would have been about real competition.

Trump doesn’t really want better money for working people. For example in the ongoing NAFTA talks Canada wanted US workers to make better wages to cut down on jobs being moved into Red states with low. The US said no.

Ahhhhhhhhhh…those gracious Canadians. Will they donate a portion of their salary?

[Smyrna]

@Drs

Simple solution just call in and report it.

What if it’s a sanctuary farm?

[Drs]

Wages would have still been have of what Canadian autoworkers make.

But it would have been about real competition.

[Smyrna]

@Drs

But it would have been about real competition.

Really? What I heard you say is that when it is about actual competition, the red states were winning so that you were promoting government intervention?

[Drs]

And you wonder why folks don’t think it is worth time talking to people such as yourself about complex matters.