The Bill of Rights is not lawfully enforceable upon the states by the federal government

Yes

I’ll be honest and had say I had not realized it took until the 1920’s to codify that the bill of rights must be followed at a state level.

However, I can’t imagine anything different. Could a state really decide they don’t want to adhere to the 5th? The 2nd? The 1st? The idea sounds ludicrous.

That’s not how government works and you are ignoring the context.

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Yes sorry i was relying on an 1870s decision but that actually ruled against incorporation.

You have a point but it fails because we can’t even define probable cause and use terms like objective and subjective reasonable person standard. My point is tha many things in the constitution aren’t spelled out. While others like shall not be infringed or congress shall make no law certainly are

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Well hold on. That amendment has been directed forever- especially in light of the larger statement. I would definitely not say “spelled out”. Hell we are right now arguing over issues like age limits for purchasing. (Sorry don’t want to turn this into a 2nd amendment debate.)

The 14th is a Reconstruction Amendment.

The phrase is straight forward, that we can’t agree on the color of ■■■■ doesn’t mean that isn’t mostly brown. :joy:

I am including the context. The 14th required the states provide due process. It did not state what process was due. Decades later, the court for the first time said that the bill of rights could be used as a guideline for determining what process was due.

Yes and particularly pertains to the right of free black people- but it has taken a much much larger role since then. Big wide amorphous statement down there that can be interpreted a whole lotta ways.

All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Where do you get that?

All process is due - well almost all. That’s why it doesn’t specify. I am simplifying it significantly. But still

OK- when does one legally have a right to buy a gun (based on the 2nd amendment)?

Incorporation of the 5th almost verbatim.

Wars have consequences.

All process is due? Including the right to appeal to the King of England?

Good thread @johnwk2 - got us thinking.

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Incorporation Doctrine - Amendment, Rights, Court, and Bill - JRank Articles.

Within the confines of American law come on don’t be silly.

It’s incorrect. The Reconstruction Amendments were the first of incorporation.

That 1925 case is an interesting one to examine- 1st amendment rights as it pertains to New York State.

In an opinion authored by Justice Edward Sanford, the Court concluded that New York could prohibit advocating violent efforts to overthrow the government under the Criminal Anarchy Law. Citing Schenck and Abrams, the Court reasoned the government could punish speech that threatens its basic existence because of the national security implications. Despite the small scale of Gitlow’s actions, the majority was not persuaded that they were too insignificant to have an impact.

The Supreme Court previously held, in Barron v. Baltimore (1833), that the Constitution’s Bill of Rights applied only to the federal government. Gitlow partly reversed that precedent and established that while the Bill of Rights was designed to limit the power of the federal government, the incorporation principle allows it to be applied to states.

In dissent, Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes held that Gitlow had not violated the clear and present danger test used in Schenck. Since Gitlow’s call to action was abstract and would not resonate with a large number of people, Holmes concluded that there was not sufficient imminence to warrant punishing the speech.

LOL lot have happen since then. Just seems history/memory all flows together anymore.

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