I recall reading that one of the holdouts made the condition of his support that McCarthy allow the abolition of the IRS. to be brought up for a vote in the House. That was behind my post calling it a political stunt.
Well, you haven’t provided a link to what you seem to recall, so I can’t address it. Aside from that I stick with what I stated above in regard to your comment about a political stunt.
No conservative in their right mind would knowingly promote the FairTax to help McCarthy get elected as speaker when the proposal, if adopted, would established an entirely new tax, keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes alive, requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to sell the property each has in their own labor, requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up, and creates a new entitlement that would become another issue used during election time to buy votes.
The bottom line is any politician who promotes the FairTax is either intentionally trying to enlarge the taxing powers of the federal government or is a total nitwit and negligent.in their obligation to understand legislation they are promoting. I know Mike Huckabee and a number of other self-described “conservatives” did everything imaginable to promote the FairTax, and they constantly misrepresented what it would actually do. And media personalities like Neal Bortz who also promoted the fraudulent FairTax on his radio show, and was trying to sell his FairTax book, would cut off callers when they called in his show and attempted to prove the FairTax was a fraud being perpetrated upon the American people.
But getting back to those on the Freedom Caucus and its members who promote the FairTax (H.R.25), they certainly have some explaining to do and tell us why they promote legislation which would, if adopted, enlarge and tighten the iron fist of our federal government around the necks of the American people.
JWK
When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.
Thank you for posting that article but it is old news to me.
I’ve known for quite some time Freedom Caucus members are promoting the fraudulent and deceptive FairTax . . . which actually is the subject of the thread.
So, tell me, do you agree the FairTax, which is being promoted by members of the so-called "Freedom Caucus", is a fraud being perpetrated, and would actually enlarge and tighten the federal government’s iron fist around the necks of the American people?
SEE House Bill Would Reform Tax Code, Eliminate IRS
Saturday January 14, 2023
Rep. Buddy Carter, R-Ga., reintroduced a bill Monday that would replace the current federal tax structure with a national consumption tax and lead to the elimination of the Internal Revenue Service.
Carter first introduced the Fair Tax Act in January 2021, but it failed to make it out of the Ways and Means Committee. His action comes on the heels of the House voting 221-201 on Monday night to rescind funding for the hiring of 87,000 additional IRS agents stipulated under the Inflation Reduction Act, which became law last year.
What Rep. Buddy Carter, R-Ga., and Rep. Kat Cammack, R-Fla., avoid telling their constituents is, the FairTax, which they are trying to shove down the throats of the American people . .
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creates an entirely new tax,
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creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting taxes.
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keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect excise taxes calculated from incomes alive,
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requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year,
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requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to sell the property each has in their own labor,
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requires ordinary people to become tax collectors for government
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requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up,
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and creates a new entitlement, the Family Consumption Allowance [a monthly government check sent to every family in the U.S.] that would become another wedge issue used during election time to buy votes.
Why on earth would any “conservative” politician support this rope-a-dope proposal which enlarges and strengthens the federal government’s iron grip around the American people’s necks?
If Rep. Buddy Carter, R-Ga., and Rep. Kat Cammack, R-Fla., are really determined to offer meaningful federal tax reform, they would introduce the FAIR SHARE BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT which begins as follows:
“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay any tax or burden calculated from sales, profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.
NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s original tax plan as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned “incomes” which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling the property each has in their own labor, not to mention they would end federal taxation being used as a political weapon to harass and attack political opponents!
JWK
When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people
Look at how reason makes crap up about the alleged FairTax, H.R.25.
“The bill would overhaul the nation’s entire tax code, scrapping all federal taxes in favor of the FairTax, a 23 percent national retail sales tax.”
That is just one of other falsehoods and/or misrepresentations in the article titled House Republicans Want a Vote On the FairTax. Is It Worth Supporting?
The truth is, H.R.25 would not scrap “… all federal taxes in favor of the FairTax, a 23 percent national retail sales tax.” Congress’ power to lay and collect imposts, duties and excise taxes remains and includes the power to lay and collect “excise” taxes calculated from profits and gains, see
The Corporation Tax, as imposed by Congress in the Tariff Act of 1909, is not a direct tax, but an excise; it does not fall within the apportionment clause of the Constitution, but is within, and complies with, the provision for uniformity throughout the United States; it is an excise on the privilege of doing business in a corporate capacity,
Also keep in mind that the alleged FairTax creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting taxes.
Why are so many, so quick and determined to make crap up about the FairTax?
JWK
If, by calling a tax indirect when it is essentially direct, the rule of protection [apportionment] could be frittered away, one of the great landmarks defining the boundary between the nation and the states of which it is composed, would have disappeared, and with it one of the bulwarks of private rights and private property. POLLOCK v. FARMERS’ LOAN & TRUST CO., 157 U.S. 429 (1895) JUSTICE FULLER
Representative Buddy Carter is still peddling and misrepresenting what the “FairTax” would accomplish. And Newsmax now seems to be embracing this rope-a-dope and devious expansion of our federal government’s taxing arm by repeatedly giving uncontested coverage to those promoting it. Latest example being: Rep. Carter to Newsmax: New ‘Fair Tax’ Law Would Eliminate IRS
Saturday, 14 January 2023
“Rather than paying a tax on income or property, Americans should be paying a consumption tax, or a “fair tax” on the things they buy, according to Rep. Buddy Carter, who this week introduced legislation that he told Newsmax will “do away” with the IRS.”
What our dear Buddy Carter doesn’t reveal about the fraudulently characterized “FairTax” is, while it would close down the IRS if adopted, it would also create two new tax collecting agencies in its place, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", and that is in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting federal taxes.
Carter also suggests that under his “FairTax” people will no longer be subject to a property tax, income tax, or a payroll tax. What he doesn’t say is why an “Excise Tax Bureau” is created under H.R. 25, which obviously will be collecting all the new “excise” taxes Congress dreams up in addition to the new 23% FairTax.
To get an idea of the trickery behind the FairTax and the reason why it creates a new tax collecting agency called the “Excise Tax Bureau”, we need to recall the Corporate Excise tax of 1909, mentioned above, and how Congress laid a tax calculated from profits and gains (income) which was upheld by the Supreme Court as being constitutional, even before the 16th Amendment was adopted.
So, while Buddy Carter’s crap about not paying an “income tax” is technically true under the alleged FairTax, Congress still gets to lay and collect countless “excise” taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes, and that is in addition to the 23% FairTax on consumption which enlarges the iron grip of our federal government around the necks of the American people.
It should also be noted that Carter’s nonsense about not paying a “property tax” with reference to H.R. 25 is disingenuous at best. As it turns out, under the FairTax, ordinary working people, like Mary and Joe who live down the street, will feel the heavy hand of the tax collector when selling the property each has in their own labor, and in addition, they will be required to register with government and file FairTax returns twelve frickin times a year! See The FairTax might as well be called the Nanny Tax
If Rep. Buddy Carter is really sincere about ending federal taxes calculated from profits, gains, wages, and other lawfully earned incomes, and raising revenue by taxing consumption, all he need do is to start promoting the FAIR SHARE BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT which begins as follows:
“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay any tax or burden calculated from sales, profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.
NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s original tax plan as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned “incomes” which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling the property each has in their own labor, not to mention they would end federal taxation being used as a political weapon to harass and attack political opponents!
JWK
“The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.” ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Seems that the FairTax is not only deceptive and a rope-a-dope con job but it’s DOA in the House.
SEE:
https://thenewamerican.com/doa-fair-tax-act-to-abolish-the-irs-has-zero-chance-of-passage/
JWK
When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.
I see Matt Gaetz is supporting a fraudulent Balanced Budget Amendment that would make it constitutional for Congress to not balance the annual budget.
H.J.Res.14 - Proposing a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution of the U.S.
If Matt Gaetz, a FREEDOM CAUCUS MEMBER was sincere about encouraging Congress to balance the annual federal budget, he would be supporting The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment which would actually require Congress to balance the annual budget.
JWK
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And here is another Freedom Caucus member, Representative Barry Moore (R), who has decided to support the fraudulent and deceptive FairTax (H.R. 25) which, if adopted, would create a new 23% tax on articles of consumption, and do so without withdrawing Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries and other “incomes”.
SEE:
Now, keep in mind nowhere in the Bill does it withdraw Congress authority to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains, salaries, wages, and other lawfully realized incomes. And how could it when withdrawing such power from Congress requires a constitutional amendment!
But the FairTax Act does create a new federal agency, the “Excise Tax Bureau”, and it will be there to collect, in addition to a new 23% tax on articles of consumption, countless new “excise” taxes Congress dreams up calculated form incomes such as the Corporate Excise Tax of 1909, [See Flint v. Stone Tracy Co., 220 U.S. 107 (1911) in which the Supreme Court confirmed Congress had power, prior to the adoption of the 16th Amendment, to lay and collect a tax calculated from profits and gains (income) without having to apportion the tax.
The bottom line is, we are learning how stupid and uniformed some of the Freedom Caucus members are, or that they are intentionally promoting a rope-a-dope piece of legislation knowing full well it is cleverly designed to expand and enlarge the iron fist of our corrupted and thieving federal government’s taxing arm.
If Representative Barry Moore is sincere in his stated objectives, especially closing down the IRS and ending all federal taxes calculated from profits, gains, wages, tips, and other lawfully realized “incomes”, he would lend his support to the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment which would actually accomplish what the FairTax advertises but doesn’t.
The Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment begins with the following words:
“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay any tax or burden calculated from sales, profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.
NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s original tax plan as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned “incomes” which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling the property each has in their own labor, not to mention they would end federal taxation being used as a political weapon to harass and attack political opponents!
JWK
“We often give enemies the means of our own destruction.” – Aesop.
I don’t have very much doubt that if we went this route in the end we will have both a national sales tax and income taxes.
1 Like
I actually studied the TEXT OF THE FAIR TAX ACT and nowhere in its text is Congress forbidden from laying and collecting excise taxes calculated from profits, gains and “incomes”, while it does provide for an entirely new tax . . . a 23 percent tax “…on the use or consumption in the United States of taxable property or services”.
So, to your point, the text of the legislation is weasel worded in such a manner to actually introduce an across the board 23 tax on consumption, while allowing Congress to dream up countless excise taxes calculated from profits, gains and other “incomes”, in effect winding up with a national sales tax and taxes calculated from incomes as you correctly point out.
Seems to me the very purpose of creating the new “Excise Tax Bureau”, which the FairTax does, is to move current IRS Agents into this new agency where they will collect countless new Excise taxes dreamed up by Congress which are calculated from profits, gains and other “incomes” as done under the Corporate Excise tax of 1909.
Seems quite clear why these Republican fair taxers don’t like the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment. There is no weasel wording in it, its two pages long, and it would actually accomplish what the FairTax advertises but doesn’t. They [Republicans] who support the FairTax actually seem to want to enlarge the federal government’s iron fisted taxing arm, and further tighten it around the American people’s necks. Or perhaps they simply are nitwits and haven’t studying the actual legislative language of the so-call FairTax Act.
1 Like
I just came across the following article which deals with the alleged “FairTax”.
National Sales Tax Update: Test Vote for the Fair Tax
"As noted in the above clip, I’m very worried about giving untrustworthy politicians a new source of tax revenue without unambiguously and permanently getting rid of the income tax (so that we don’t repeat the European mistake of giving politicians a way of expanding government).
I also worry that a Fair Tax is vulnerable to demagoguery since lawmakers will get hit with election-year ads stating they want a big 30 percent tax on everything people buy (while overlooking that our paychecks will be much bigger once income taxes and payroll taxes are abolished).
Indeed, many sympathizers openly admit that the Fair Tax has vulnerabilities."
One thing for sure is, the FairTax as advertised, is far, far different from what is found in the text of the FairTax Act
JWK
Here is the latest fluff article on the alleged FairTax, compliments of our lazy and useless print media.
Opinion: Biden wastes no time attacking GOP FairTax plan (ajc.com)
1/19/2023
“The most interesting development was how the White House wasted no time ridiculing the FairTax, trying to make it a political millstone around the neck of every GOP lawmaker.
“It would raise taxes on the middle class by taxing thousands of everyday items from groceries to gas, while cutting taxes for the wealthiest Americans,” said President Biden, who issued a veto threat.”
It’s not that Biden is worried about the FairTax becoming law. Instead, this was more of an easy opportunity to accuse Republicans of raising taxes on working Americans.”
So, as is usual, we find a journalist is more interested in irrelevant political partisan nonsense than actually reporting on the fraudulent and deceptive nature of the FairTax proposal, which has “deep Georgia roots” as pointed out in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution article by Jamie Dupree, author of the article.
Wouldn’t it be more productive to report what the alleged FairTax would and wouldn’t do? For example, the FairTax:
creates an entirely new tax, a 23 percent tax on articles of consumption, and on “taxable property”;
creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive, which will also be collecting taxes.
Imposes the new 23% “FairTax” on American citizens and businesses while Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes on “incomes” remains fully intact;
requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year;
requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to exercise a fundamental right of mankind . . . selling the property each has in their own labor;
requires ordinary people to become tax collectors for government;
requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up;
allows Congress to lay and collect countless “excise taxes” which members of Congress may dream up, and are calculated from profits, gains and other incomes;
and creates a new entitlement, the “Family Consumption Allowance” [a monthly government check sent to every “qualified family” in the U.S.] that would become another political partisan wedge-issue used during election time to buy votes.
Why on earth would any politician, regardless of their political party affiliation, support this rope-a-dope proposal which enlarges and strengthens the federal government’s iron taxing grip around their constituents’ necks?
And why does our popular media, including The Atlanta Journal-Constitution, totally ignore the FairTax counter proposal ___ the Fair Share Balanced Budget Amendment___ which would return us to our Constitution’s original tax plan, as our founders intended it to operate, and would impose needed and necessary restraints upon Congress’ current suicidal taxing, spending and borrowing activities?
JWK
When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.
This seems to confirm our Republican Congress and Freedom Caucus members are very much part of the Washington Establishment’s never-ending push to enlarge and consolidate power in their hands.
My pet question goes unanswered:
Why on earth would any freedom loving, Republican member of Congress, support the rope-a-dope FairTax Act proposal which, if adopted, enlarges and strengthens the federal government’s iron fisted taxing grip around the American people’s necks?
JWK
When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.
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I see the Republican Leadership in the House is still promoting a fraudulent and deceptive tax reform idea which would actually enlarge the federal government’s taxing authority. And our popular media is cleverly covering up what the FairTax scheme would actually do.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/23/politics/irs-fair-tax-republicans-abolish/index.html
By Katie Lobosco, CNN, Mon January 23, 2023
"The Republicans’ Fair Tax Act is not a new idea. A version was first introduced in Congress in 1999. It’s never had enough support to become law, but it puts forth an appealing message to those Americans who love to hate the federal tax agency.
It would get rid of the complicated federal tax system, doing away with the annual task of filing tax returns. Instead, the bill would replace federal taxes on individual and corporate income with a national 23% sales tax …"
Of course, Katie Lobosco of CNN misrepresents and does not report that the “FairTax” plan, if adopted, would increase the annual tax return filing to twelve fricking times a year! [“CHAPTER 5, OTHER ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS, SEC. 501. MONTHLY REPORTS AND PAYMENTS].
Why do they continue to lie about the FairTax?
JWK
“Until you realize how easy it is for your mind to be manipulated, you remain the puppet of someone else’s game.” ― Evita Ochel
Once again, the “FairTax” is misrepresented. This time by Adam Hardy,
Money.com, author of the following article
See:
Adam Hardy, author of the article, asserts:
“However, the act proposes much more than dismantling the IRS, and the framework has been around for decades. In its current iteration, the Fair Tax Act would get rid of every type of current federal tax — including payroll, self-employment, estate, death and corporate taxes — and replace them with a nationwide 23% retail tax that happens at the checkout counter for new goods and services.”
The truth is, the FairTax does not “. . . get rid of every type of current federal tax — .”
For example, under the alleged FairTax, the Internal Revenue Code of 1986, subtitle E (relating to alcohol, tobacco, and certain other excise taxes) is simply redesignated as subtitle C and will still be collected by the newly created “Excise Tax Bureau”, while the newly created “Sales Tax Bureau” will be collecting the new 23 percent tax on articles of consumption and upon “taxable property” which is also taxed under the alleged FairTax.
I know it takes time to dig through the weasel wording of the alleged FairTax Act, but those who report on it, should take the time to study it before making inaccurate statements concerning it.
Had Adam Hardy done his job and studied the Bill, he would have found “SEC. 302. ADMINISTRATION OF OTHER FEDERAL TAXES”…
(a) IN GENERAL. — Section 7801 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 (relating to the authority of the Department of the Treasury) is amended by adding at the end the following:
“(d) EXCISE TAX BUREAU. — There shall be in the Department of the Treasury an Excise Tax Bureau to administer those excise taxes not administered by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
“(e) SALES TAX BUREAU. — There shall be in the Department of the Treasury a Sales Tax Bureau to administer the national sales tax in those States where it is required pursuant to section 404, and to discharge other Federal duties and powers relating to the national sales tax (including those required by sections 402, 403, and 405). The Office of Revenue Allocation shall be within the Sales Tax Bureau."
As I previously pointed out, contrary to Adam Hardy’s assertion, the FairTax does not “. . . get rid of every type of current federal tax — .”
JWK
We are here today and gone tomorrow, but what is most important is what we do in-between and is what our children will inherit and remember us by.
Even the Wall Street Journal’s Editorial Board, misrepresents the FairTax Act.
“The plan is called the Fair Tax and its premise is simple: Replace every existing federal tax with a new national tax on sales.”
Seems that the nitwittery, or perhaps laziness by the WSJ’s Editorial Board, is a common characteristic of today’s popular media.
As documented HERE, the FAIRTAX ACT would not "Replace every existing federal tax with a new national tax on sales”, nor does the legislation remotely suggest it would. So why is this factually inaccurate representation constantly being asserted about the FairTax?
This same misrepresentation was constantly reported in the 1990s when the fair tax was introduced. And it was totally false then as it is now. So why has it been misrepresented all these years [about 25 years], and continues, to this very date, to be misrepresented by our mainstream media?
Something very suspicious seems to be afoot when our popular media act in concert and falsely report, for so many years, that the FairTax would “Replace every existing federal tax with a new national tax on sales.”
JWK
“Until you realize how easy it is for your mind to be manipulated, you remain the puppet of someone else’s game.” ― Evita Ochel
Good news . . .
https://news.yahoo.com/kevin-mccarthy-disavows-30-percent-071657725.html
Why is this good news you ask? I say so because of what the FairTax would do if adopted.
If the FAIRTAX ACT were passed into law it:
creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive, which will also be collecting taxes.
Imposes the new 23% “FairTax” on American citizens and businesses while Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes on “incomes” remains fully intact;
requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year;
requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to exercise a fundamental right of mankind . . . selling the property each has in their own labor;
requires ordinary people to become tax collectors for government;
requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up;
allows Congress to lay and collect countless “excise taxes” which members of Congress may dream up, and could be calculated from profits, gains and other incomes;
creates a new entitlement, the “Family Consumption Allowance” [a monthly government check sent to every “qualified family” in the U.S.] that would become another political partisan wedge-issue used during election time to buy votes in addition to making an enormously large segment of those who vote extremely dependent upon government to access their monthly necessities of life.
So now we know why Kevin McCarthy’s position is “good news”!
Why on earth would any politician, especially a conservative leader such as Kevin McCarthy, after studying the proposed legislation, support this dastardly evil proposal which would enlarge and strengthen the federal government’s iron fisted taxing grip around the American peoples’ necks?
JWK
We are here today and gone tomorrow, but what is most important is what we do in between and is what our children will inherit and remember us by.
