I found an old copy
what understanding do you get when you read
Section 603 (b)
A Taxpayer Assistance Order may only be rescinded or modified by the problem resolution officer that issued it, by the highest official in the relevant sales tax administering authority or by its general counsel upon a finding that the collection activity is justified by clear and convincing evidence. The authority to reverse this Taxpayer Assistance Order may not be delegated.
It is absolutely sickening how many so-called “conservatives” are promoting the alleged Fair Tax which keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from profits, gains and other “incomes” alive while imposing an additional tax which increases the number of tax returns required to be filed to 12 frickin times a year!
In any even see:
JWK
“To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen [a working person’s earned wage] and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation.”____ Savings and Loan Association v.Topeka,(1875).[/
I already provided you with a link to the text of the Fair Tax HERE. And if you study the proposal, you will find what I posted HERE is accurate.
JWK
Yes I am reading it (as I said)
and
(as I said) since you read it
When you read it cover to cover (as I said)
I asked you to tell me what did you understand from
Section 603 (b)
A Taxpayer Assistance Order may only be rescinded or modified by the problem resolution officer that issued it, by the highest official in the relevant sales tax administering authority or by its general counsel upon a finding that the collection activity is justified by clear and convincing evidence. The authority to reverse this Taxpayer Assistance Order may not be delegated.
[/quote]
Please tell me.
When you read that section what did your reading of that section mean to you?
What was your understanding when you read it?
What I understand about SEC. 603 (b) is, it has to do with setting up a “Problem Resolution Office” which I am not interested in and have no comments on.
“SEC. 603. PROBLEM RESOLUTION OFFICES.
“(a) Problem Resolution Office To Be Established.—Each sales tax administering authority shall establish an independent Problem Resolution Office and appoint an adequate number of problem resolution officers. The head of the problem resolution office must be appointed by, and serve at the pleasure of either the State Governor (in the case of an administering State) or the President of the United States.
“(b) Authority Of Problem Resolution Officers.—Problem resolution officers shall have the authority to investigate complaints and issue a Taxpayer Assistance Order to administratively enjoin any collection activity if, in the opinion of the problem resolution officer, said collection activity is reasonably likely to not be in compliance with law or to prevent hardship (other than by reason of having to pay taxes lawfully due). Problem resolution officers shall also have the authority to issue Taxpayer Assistance Orders releasing or returning property that has been levied upon or seized, ordering that a lien be released and that garnished wages be returned. A Taxpayer Assistance Order may only be rescinded or modified by the problem resolution officer that issued it, by the highest official in the relevant sales tax administering authority or by its general counsel upon a finding that the collection activity is justified by clear and convincing evidence. The authority to reverse this Taxpayer Assistance Order may not be delegated.
.
When one takes the time to study the provisions of the “Fair Tax” they soon realize ordinary working people, like the married couple down the block, Mary and Joe, will not only have to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, but register with government to exercise their inalienable right to sell the property each has in their own labor.
Let us look at Mary and Joe who have two children and find it necessary to earn extra money to pay their bills. Mary baby sits for neighbors in the community and cleans homes on weekends to raise extra money while Joe, who works for a plumbing company as a full-time job, also provides plumbing services on his own time to people living in his community.
Under the alleged FairTax Mary and Joe’s inalienable right to sell the property they have in their labor becomes a taxable event and must register with government [“SEC. 502. REGISTRATION”], to sell the property they have in their labor, collect a 23 percent federal tax for Congress [“SEC. 101. IMPOSITION OF SALES TAX] when selling their labor, and file Fair Tax returns under the penalty of perjury twelve times a year [“SEC. 501. MONTHLY REPORTS AND PAYMENTS].
Additionally, Mary and Joe will also be compelled to keep any records Congress may dream up [“SEC. 508. RECORDS] and live under the constant threat of audits [“SEC. 507. SUMMONS, EXAMINATIONS, AUDITS, ETC.], if they dare to sell the property they have in their labor. Now keep in mind how direct taxation is currently being used to threaten, intimidate, and harass political opponents.
Why on earth would any Freedom Caucus member support the Nanny Tax, AKA the Fair Tax?
JWK
"The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property." ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Why do we even need taxes? Just print money as usual! Oh, this is just the opening round of negotiation, they won’t be getting rid of the income tax anytime soon. We should because it just funds these fed agencies that are full of corrupt people. See russian collusion or hunters lap top. Or biden’s actually stealing classified docs like Hillary.
Why on earth do you say that when the FAIR TAX ACT established an entirely new tax, keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes alive, requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to sell the property each has in their own labor, requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up, and creates a new entitlement that would become another issue used during election time to buy votes.
Why on earth would any politician support this rope-a-dope proposal which strengthens the federal government’s iron grip around the American people’s necks?
JWK
“The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.” ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
Why would the conservative leadership in the House, who I believe you are really referring to, do what you assert when they are promoting the Fair Tax and if adopted, the Fair Tax would do all the bad things I listed IN MY LAST POST?
Are you suggesting the Republican Leadershjip, just like the Democrat Leadership, want to destroy our country using the force of government?
JWK
“We often give enemies the means of our own destruction.” – Aesop.
As the Weimar Republic did, which appears to be what our current federal leadership wants.
JWK
As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances there is a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air - however slight - lest we become unwitting victims of darkness.___Supreme Court Justice William Douglas
My response was directed solely at the deal making aspect. I have no opinion one way or another on the flat tax. I just know that it has zero chance of becoming law.
You did write:
This is a political stunt to placate RW extremists and to get McCarthy elected speaker.
No conservative in their right mind would knowingly promote the FairTax to help McCarthy get elected as speaker when the proposal, if adopted, would established an entirely new tax, keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes alive, requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to sell the property each has in their own labor, requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up, and creates a new entitlement that would become another issue used during election time to buy votes.
Why do you assert the push to adopt the FairTax is a “. . . political stunt to placate RW extremists and to get McCarthy elected speaker.”
JWK
I recall reading that one of the holdouts made the condition of his support that McCarthy allow the abolition of the IRS. to be brought up for a vote in the House. That was behind my post calling it a political stunt.
Well, you haven’t provided a link to what you seem to recall, so I can’t address it. Aside from that I stick with what I stated above in regard to your comment about a political stunt.
No conservative in their right mind would knowingly promote the FairTax to help McCarthy get elected as speaker when the proposal, if adopted, would established an entirely new tax, keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect taxes calculated from incomes alive, requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year, requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to sell the property each has in their own labor, requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up, and creates a new entitlement that would become another issue used during election time to buy votes.
The bottom line is any politician who promotes the FairTax is either intentionally trying to enlarge the taxing powers of the federal government or is a total nitwit and negligent.in their obligation to understand legislation they are promoting. I know Mike Huckabee and a number of other self-described “conservatives” did everything imaginable to promote the FairTax, and they constantly misrepresented what it would actually do. And media personalities like Neal Bortz who also promoted the fraudulent FairTax on his radio show, and was trying to sell his FairTax book, would cut off callers when they called in his show and attempted to prove the FairTax was a fraud being perpetrated upon the American people.
But getting back to those on the Freedom Caucus and its members who promote the FairTax (H.R.25), they certainly have some explaining to do and tell us why they promote legislation which would, if adopted, enlarge and tighten the iron fist of our federal government around the necks of the American people.
JWK
When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people.
Thank you for posting that article but it is old news to me.
I’ve known for quite some time Freedom Caucus members are promoting the fraudulent and deceptive FairTax . . . which actually is the subject of the thread.
So, tell me, do you agree the FairTax, which is being promoted by members of the so-called "Freedom Caucus", is a fraud being perpetrated, and would actually enlarge and tighten the federal government’s iron fist around the necks of the American people?
Saturday January 14, 2023
Rep. Buddy Carter, R-Ga., reintroduced a bill Monday that would replace the current federal tax structure with a national consumption tax and lead to the elimination of the Internal Revenue Service.
Carter first introduced the Fair Tax Act in January 2021, but it failed to make it out of the Ways and Means Committee. His action comes on the heels of the House voting 221-201 on Monday night to rescind funding for the hiring of 87,000 additional IRS agents stipulated under the Inflation Reduction Act, which became law last year.
What Rep. Buddy Carter, R-Ga., and Rep. Kat Cammack, R-Fla., avoid telling their constituents is, the FairTax, which they are trying to shove down the throats of the American people . .
creates an entirely new tax,
creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting taxes.
keeps Congress’ power to lay and collect excise taxes calculated from incomes alive,
requires taxpayers to file Fair Tax returns twelve times a year,
requires ordinary working people to register with government in order to sell the property each has in their own labor,
requires ordinary people to become tax collectors for government
requires taxpayers to keep whatever records Congress may dream up,
and creates a new entitlement, the Family Consumption Allowance [a monthly government check sent to every family in the U.S.] that would become another wedge issue used during election time to buy votes.
Why on earth would any “conservative” politician support this rope-a-dope proposal which enlarges and strengthens the federal government’s iron grip around the American people’s necks?
If Rep. Buddy Carter, R-Ga., and Rep. Kat Cammack, R-Fla., are really determined to offer meaningful federal tax reform, they would introduce the FAIR SHARE BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT which begins as follows:
“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay any tax or burden calculated from sales, profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.
NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s original tax plan as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned “incomes” which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling the property each has in their own labor, not to mention they would end federal taxation being used as a political weapon to harass and attack political opponents!
JWK
When Federal Reserve Notes were made a legal tender in violation of our Constitution, and a direct un-apportioned tax was imposed upon the people without their consent, America’s free enterprise, free market system was subjugated, and the tools of oppression were made available to some very immoral and nefariously evil people
“The bill would overhaul the nation’s entire tax code, scrapping all federal taxes in favor of the FairTax, a 23 percent national retail sales tax.”
That is just one of other falsehoods and/or misrepresentations in the article titled House Republicans Want a Vote On the FairTax. Is It Worth Supporting?
The truth is, H.R.25 would not scrap “… all federal taxes in favor of the FairTax, a 23 percent national retail sales tax.” Congress’ power to lay and collect imposts, duties and excise taxes remains and includes the power to lay and collect “excise” taxes calculated from profits and gains, see
The Corporation Tax, as imposed by Congress in the Tariff Act of 1909, is not a direct tax, but an excise; it does not fall within the apportionment clause of the Constitution, but is within, and complies with, the provision for uniformity throughout the United States; it is an excise on the privilege of doing business in a corporate capacity,
Also keep in mind that the alleged FairTax creates two new tax collecting agencies, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting taxes.
Why are so many, so quick and determined to make crap up about the FairTax?
JWK
If, by calling a tax indirect when it is essentially direct, the rule of protection [apportionment] could be frittered away, one of the great landmarks defining the boundary between the nation and the states of which it is composed, would have disappeared, and with it one of the bulwarks of private rights and private property. POLLOCK v. FARMERS’ LOAN & TRUST CO., 157 U.S. 429 (1895) JUSTICE FULLER
Representative Buddy Carter is still peddling and misrepresenting what the “FairTax” would accomplish. And Newsmax now seems to be embracing this rope-a-dope and devious expansion of our federal government’s taxing arm by repeatedly giving uncontested coverage to those promoting it. Latest example being: Rep. Carter to Newsmax: New ‘Fair Tax’ Law Would Eliminate IRS
Saturday, 14 January 2023
“Rather than paying a tax on income or property, Americans should be paying a consumption tax, or a “fair tax” on the things they buy, according to Rep. Buddy Carter, who this week introduced legislation that he told Newsmax will “do away” with the IRS.”
What our dear Buddy Carter doesn’t reveal about the fraudulently characterized “FairTax” is, while it would close down the IRS if adopted, it would also create two new tax collecting agencies in its place, an “Excise Tax Bureau” and the “Sales Tax Bureau", and that is in addition to keeping the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms alive which will also be collecting federal taxes.
Carter also suggests that under his “FairTax” people will no longer be subject to a property tax, income tax, or a payroll tax. What he doesn’t say is why an “Excise Tax Bureau” is created under H.R. 25, which obviously will be collecting all the new “excise” taxes Congress dreams up in addition to the new 23% FairTax.
To get an idea of the trickery behind the FairTax and the reason why it creates a new tax collecting agency called the “Excise Tax Bureau”, we need to recall the Corporate Excise tax of 1909, mentioned above, and how Congress laid a tax calculated from profits and gains (income) which was upheld by the Supreme Court as being constitutional, even before the 16th Amendment was adopted.
So, while Buddy Carter’s crap about not paying an “income tax” is technically true under the alleged FairTax, Congress still gets to lay and collect countless “excise” taxes calculated from profits, gains and other incomes, and that is in addition to the 23% FairTax on consumption which enlarges the iron grip of our federal government around the necks of the American people.
It should also be noted that Carter’s nonsense about not paying a “property tax” with reference to H.R. 25 is disingenuous at best. As it turns out, under the FairTax, ordinary working people, like Mary and Joe who live down the street, will feel the heavy hand of the tax collector when selling the property each has in their own labor, and in addition, they will be required to register with government and file FairTax returns twelve frickin times a year! See The FairTax might as well be called the Nanny Tax
If Rep. Buddy Carter is really sincere about ending federal taxes calculated from profits, gains, wages, and other lawfully earned incomes, and raising revenue by taxing consumption, all he need do is to start promoting the FAIR SHARE BALANCED BUDGET AMENDMENT which begins as follows:
“SECTION 1. The Sixteenth Amendment is hereby repealed and Congress is henceforth forbidden to lay any tax or burden calculated from sales, profits, gains, interest, salaries, wages, tips, inheritances or any other lawfully realized money.
NOTE: these words would return us to our founding father’s original tax plan as they intended it to operate! They would also end the experiment with allowing Congress to lay and collect taxes calculated from lawfully earned “incomes” which now oppresses America‘s economic engine and robs the bread which working people have earned when selling the property each has in their own labor, not to mention they would end federal taxation being used as a political weapon to harass and attack political opponents!
JWK
“The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.” ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)
