Jesus before and after the crucifixion, Kashmiri connections

Just for reference the Wikipedia entry of “Tathagata”

A quote from the Saddharma Pundarika Sutra (Lotus Sutra)

The Gospel is even greater than imagined.

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Taking this slowly

"The Lord, considering that the Bodhisattvas repeated their prayer up to three times, addressed them thus: Listen then, young men of good family.

The force of a strong resolve which I assumed is such, young men of good family, that this world, including gods, men, and demons, acknowledges: ‘Now has the Lord Sakyamuni, after going out from the home of the Sakyas, arrived at supreme, perfect enlightenment, on the summit of the terrace of enlightenment at the town of Gaya.’.

But, young men of good family, the truth is that many hundred thousand myriads of kotis of Æons ago I have arrived at supreme, perfect enlightenment.

By way of example, young men of good family, let there be the atoms of earth of fifty hundred thousand myriads of kotis of worlds; let there exist some man who takes one of those atoms of dust and then goes in an eastern direction fifty hundred thousand myriads of kotis of worlds further on, there to deposit that atom of dust; let in this manner the man carry away from all those worlds the whole mass of earth, and in the same manner, and by the same act as supposed, deposit all those atoms in an eastern direction.

Now, would you think, young men of good family, that any one should be able to imagine, weigh, count, or determine (the number of) those worlds?

The Lord having thus spoken, the Bodhisattva Mahasattva Maitreya and the entire host of Bodhisattvas replied: They are incalculable, O Lord, those worlds, countless, beyond the range of thought. Not even all the disciples and Pratyekabuddhas, O Lord, with their Ârya-knowledge, will be able to imagine, weigh, count, or determine them. For us also, O Lord, who are Bodhisattvas standing on the place from whence there is no turning back, this point lies beyond the sphere of our comprehension; so innumerable, O Lord, are those worlds."

Another—the most amazing segment of the Sutra to take slowly…

"Let us suppose an analogous case, young men of good family. 'There is some physician, learned, intelligent, prudent, clever in allaying all sorts of diseases. That man has many sons, ten, twenty, thirty, forty, fifty, or a hundred.

'The physician, once being abroad, all his children incur a disease from poison or venom.

'Overcome with the grievous pains caused by that poison or venom which burns them they lie rolling on the ground.

'Their father, the physician, comes home from his journey at the time when his sons are suffering from that poison or venom. Some of them have perverted notions, others have right notions, but all suffer the same pain.

On seeing their father they cheerfully greet him and say:

'Hail, dear father, that thou art come back in safety and welfare!

'Now deliver us from our evil, be it poison or venom; let us live, dear father.

And the physician, seeing his sons befallen with disease, overcome with pain and rolling on the ground, prepares a great remedy, having the required colour, smell, and taste, pounds it on a stone and gives it as a potion to his sons, with these words:

Take this great remedy, my sons, which has the required colour, smell, and taste. For by taking this great remedy, my sons, you shall soon be rid of this poison or venom; you shall recover and be healthy.’

Those amongst the children of the physician that have right notions, after seeing the colour of the remedy, after smelling the smell and tasting the flavour, quickly take it, and in consequence of it are soon totally delivered from their disease.

But the sons who have perverted notions cheerfully greet their father and say:

‘Hail, dear father, that thou art come back in safety and welfare; do heal us. So they speak, but they do not take the remedy offered, and that because, owing to the perverseness of their notions, that remedy does not please them, in colour, smell, nor taste.’

Then the physician reflects thus:

'These sons of mine must have become perverted in their notions owing to this poison or venom, as they do not take the remedy nor hail me. Therefore will I by some able device induce these sons to take this remedy. Prompted by this desire he speaks to those sons as follows:

'I am old, young men of good family, decrepit, advanced in years, and my term of life is near at hand; but be not sorry, young men of good family, do not feel dejected; here have I prepared a great remedy for you; if you want it, you may take it. Having thus admonished them, he skillfully betakes himself to another part of the country and lets his sick sons know that he has departed life.

They are extremely sorry and bewail him extremely:

So then he is dead, our father and protector; he who begat us; he, so full of bounty! now are we left without a protector. Fully aware of their being orphans and of having no refuge, they are continually plunged in sorrow, by which their perverted notions make room for right notions.

They acknowledge that remedy possessed of the required colour, smell, and taste to have the required colour, smell, and taste, so that they instantly take it, and by taking it are delivered from their evil. Then, on knowing that these sons are delivered from evil, the physician shows himself again:

Now, young men of good family, what is your opinion?

**Would any one charge that physician with falsehood on account of his using that device? No, certainly not, Lord; certainly not, Sugata. He proceeded:

In the same manner, young men of good family, I have arrived at supreme, perfect enlightenment since an immense, incalculable number of hundred thousands of myriads of kotis of Æons, but from time to time I display such able devices to the creatures, with the view to educate them, without there being, in that respect, any falsehood on my part.**

And finally, in the repeated verse section:

So am I the father of the world, the Self born, the Healer, the Protector of all creatures. Knowing them to be perverted, infatuated, and ignorant I teach final rest, myself not being at rest.

  1. What reason should I have to continually manifest myself? When men become unbelieving, unwise, ignorant, careless, fond of sensual pleasures, and from thoughtlessness run into misfortune,

  2. Then I, who know the course of the world, declare: I am so and so, (and consider): How can I incline them to enlightenment? how can they become partakers of the Buddha-laws?"

So as not to confuse people who are already “self-satisfied” and “believe they have attained what they have not really attained,” the Original Buddha, nature residing in Shakyamuni Buddha, taught that He was using “expedient means”

The Lotus Sutra title is essentially the Sutra of Cause and Effect—the Supreme Law of KARMA

Jesus was a Great Bodhisattva born in the time of the “middle day of the Law”

The transmission of the Lotus Sutra, into the world was carried out by a handful of great Bodhisattvas, who, together, inherited and compiled the Sutra passages and it is the Sutra’s title itself that is elucidated for the Latter Day of the Law. The Sutra was compiled in Kashmir in the 1st century.

That sounds to me like the parable of the burning house. In both cases, the message seems to be “It is okay to lie to people if lying causes them to do the right thing and save their souls.”

One day, a fire broke out in the house of a wealthy man who had many children. The wealthy man shouted at his children inside the burning house to flee. But, the children were absorbed in their games and did not heed his warning, though the house was being consumed by flames.

Then, the wealthy man devised a practical way to lure the children from the burning house. Knowing that the children were fond of interesting playthings, he called out to them, “Listen! Outside the gate are the carts that you have always wanted: carts pulled by goats, carts pulled by deer, and carts pulled by oxen. Why don’t you come out and play with them?” The wealthy man knew that these things would be irresistible to his children.

The children, eager to play with these new toys rushed out of the house but, instead of the carts that he had promised, the father gave them a cart much better than any he has described - a cart draped with precious stones and pulled by white bullocks. The important thing being that the children were saved from the dangers of the house on fire.

While the Burning House parable and other parables in the Sutra establishes the Expedient Means of the Buddha and how the Single Vehicle is the sole vehicle, the Parable of the Excellent Physician in the Duration of Life Chapter, refers to the Original Buddha revealing an infinite lifespan and being the Buddha since the infinite past and the behavior of the Buddha up to this moment and beyond.

The story of the Excellent Physician has an even more important secret meaning, referring to the worldwide propagation of the One Great Secret Law in order to transform the killing floor Samsara of life and death, into the Buddha’s land.

Now how could this relate to the “missing years” topic?

Well, I have to admit I did watch the two-hour video at the top of the thread.

So I’d have to speculate.

My speculation is that Jesus did NOT travel to Kashmir, neither before, nor after crucifixion, but that some Buddhists have found it useful to spread this “useful myth.”

How is it useful? I don’t know of any Buddhist Sect that actually promotes the idea.

Generally, Buddhists quickly recognized Jesus was often quoting Buddhist and Hindu scriptures and teachings, but Buddhist sects are just as exclusivist as Christian sects and quick to denounce “heresies”

One cannot rely on histories or hermeneutics alone. There is another way to see the truth of the matter, but in general it goes beyond the usual ability of human animals.

Obtaining DNA evidence from the Rozabal Shrine remains blocked and further archeology is at a standstill. Kashmir is the powder keg’s powder keg

In the meantime, religions have never had the power to unite humanity and create a happy world.

The video at the top of the thread is a re-edit someone made of a number of previous videos made by different people that have been around for years. A lot of what it says are points of view about the traditional beliefs of Jewish tribes in Kashmir.

The histories of the Kings who supported Buddhism and religion in general is well studied and the Ruins in nearby Kashmir area proves the assertions that the 4th Buddhist council backed by King Kanishka and the localities of the Kashan empire and the Silk Road histories and the Greek and Roman excursions have been documented but only touched upon in that video.

The Lotus Sutra parable sounds like Jesus as the Excellent Physician. If he didn’t die at the crucifixion and secreted away by Joseph of Arimathea, that would be a wonderful thing.

In Buddhism generally it is said a current fully attained Buddha cannot be murdered.

There is also the Buddhist teachings about TIME and SEQUENCE OF PROPAGATION.

The Ancient Greeks (Alexander) made a brief military foray through the Hindu Kush and into what is today, India.

The Ancient Romans traded with far away places and had goods (spices) from some very far away places but tradition has it those spices were brought most of the way by Asian merchants and that Marco Polo (late 1200’s) really was the first Western trader to travel to the Far East.

Militarily, the Roman army stopped just a few miles into what is today Iran,
and probably would not have made it that far except that Iran (Parthia) was hurt bad by a plague at the time (smallpox apparently) so the Romans won some battles and took some cities . . . then brought the plague back to Rome which was promptly devastated by the plague and stopped fighting.

I am not an expert, but I think Rome’s Eastern borders never moved much further. certainly not anywhere close to India.

Could Jesus have travelled there anyway?
Well, it would be odd if that happened and we are just now finding out about it.

There is a story that Marco Polo in Japan had met Nichiren of Japan in the 1270’s. That this occured was an oral legend. The Silk Road trading route and the trading Capital in Bactria was visited by anyone who was anyone. The merchants along the route were dominated by the Jews at most every stop. The Elites from many nations had time to explore and make a name for themselves bringing back foreign treasures. India at that time had a larger border and during the 1st century, the Silk road was part of the Kushan Empire (Kanishka and the Kushan Kings) Kanishka converted to Buddhism and gave support for the compilation of the Buddhist Canon and in the same period Mahayana Sutras were compiled.

image

King Kanishka, the basics and coins of Kanishka time

Kushan king Kanishka Coins, His Life And Contribution To Buddhism.

King Kanishka followed the principles shown by the earlier King Asoka. Both had been violent Kings who converted to Buddhism and repented of their previous actions.

Had Jesus arrived to participate in the Mahayana Sutra compilation along with the greatest religious minds alive as part of the court of the Kushan Kings previous to King Kanishka? I believe there were at least four Great Bodhisattva’s who laid out the Lotus Sutra. They were all very active scholars and geniuses. well versed on all the scriptures. The task of expounding and writing the Lotus Sutra and a handful of Mahayana Sutras. could only be done by people of the most extremely high degree of enlightenment. Only Great Bodhisattvas could have transcribed the Sutras into written Prakrit and Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit form.

The remarkable Chapter of the Lotus Sutra called:

CHAPTER XIV.
ISSUING OF BODHISATTVAS FROM THE GAPS OF THE EARTH.

The ultimate “fishers of men” chapter

"The four Bodhisattvas Mahisattvas who were the chiefest of that great host of Bodhisattvas, viz. the Bodhisattva Mahâsattva called Visishtakâritra (i.e. of eminent conduct), the Bodhisattva Mahasattva called Anantakâritra (i.e. of endless conduct), the Bodhisattva Mahâsattva called Visuddhakâritra (i.e. of correct conduct), and the Bodhisattva Mahasattva called Supratishthitakâritra (i.e. of very steady conduct), these four Bodhisattvas Mahâsattvas standing at the head of the great host, the great multitude of Bodhisattvas stretched out the joined hands towards the Lord and addressed him thus: Is the Lord in good health? Does he enjoy well-being and good ease? Are the creatures decorous, docile, obedient, correctly performing their task, so that they give no trouble to the Lord?

And those four Bodhisattvas Mahâsattvas addressed the Lord with the two following stanzas:"

Note: Discovering the identity of these Four Bodhisattva has been my own quest. These details are beyond words.

Los Angeles to NYC is about 2800 miles. Jerusalem to Kashmir is about 200 miles further. Light Traffic :grinning:

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LOL

It’s plausible from a travel standpoint

  • There were certainly merchants who made the trip all the time. (Typically in relay)
    The Ancient Romans had, in limited quantities all sorts of silks and spices from the Far east)
  • Alexander the Great took his Army into parts of India and most of them were Phalanx infantry.
  • Jesus was a famous walker said to have walked over 3,000 miles in his lifetime. The gospel tells us that as a young boy he used to walk, with his family, from Nazareth to Jerusalem regularly, walked from town-to-town in his ministry etc…

Forgive me if I, nonetheless, find the story highly unlikely though.

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Jesus was a hippy backpacker. :rofl:

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