Is Jesus a radical?

I have posted various sources of Information, not to disrupt this thread, but to try to open the door to alternate answers to these questions, presented.

That’s definitely true, although if everyone was just like me there would also be no war, or hunger, or poverty, etc… It’s easy, all they have to do is be exactly like me. One simple thing. :wink:

Would that make us Sixfeet? :grin:

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Sorry, I have to quote. . . . . . again

Ephesians 1:9-10 “He has made known to us in all wisdom and insight the mystery of His will, according to His purpose which He set forth in Christ as a plan for the fulness of time, to unite all things in Him, things in heaven and things on earth. …”

For centuries, philosophers have been haunted over the question of unity in a diverse universe. “The one and the many” is one of the stickiest in metaphysical thought. Socrates died in 339 BC and long before that, philosophers applied their minds to the nature of world stuff. Some came to the conclusion that it is fire or water or movement. Heraclitus said it was logos.

Centuries later Plato was to discover what he called universals. He concluded that all the different things are but reflections of their universal form or idea and the idea behind it was the good or God.

Plato would probably have been interested in the apostle Paul’s passage (quoted above) which says that all the multiplicity of things of both heaven and earth, however diverse and divided, would at last be made one in Christ ---- In the Logos. It’s not all that different to what he attempted to say.

I quoted this from Timaeus.

"Now that which is created is of necessity corporeal, and also visible and tangible. And nothing is visible where there is no fire, or tangible which has no solidity, and nothing is solid without earth. Wherefore also God in the beginning of creation made the body of the universe to consist of fire and earth. But two things cannot be rightly put together without a third; there must be some bond of union between them. And the fairest bond is that which makes the most complete fusion of itself and the things which it combines; and proportion is best adapted to effect such a union. For whenever in any three numbers, whether cube or square, there is a mean, which is to the last term what the first term is to it; and again, when the mean is to the first term as the last term is to the mean-then the mean becoming first and last, and the first and last both becoming means, they will all of them of necessity come to be the same, and having become the same with one another will be all one. If the universal frame had been created a surface only and having no depth, a single mean would have sufficed to bind together itself and the other terms; but now, as the world must be solid, and solid bodies are always compacted not by one mean but by two, God placed water and air in the mean between fire and earth, and made them to have the same proportion so far as was possible (as fire is to air so is air to water, and as air is to water so is water to earth); and thus he bound and put together a visible and tangible heaven. And for these reasons, and out of such elements which are in number four, the body of the world was created, and it was harmonised by proportion, and therefore has the spirit of friendship; and having been reconciled to itself, it was indissoluble by the hand of any other than the framer.

If you believe that the Earth is only 6,000 years old, then that’s what you’ll believe. Far be it from me to get into a Bible quoting contest with a scholar.

However, everything I’ve stated is from actual, physical evidence, from peer-reviewed findings. Hard facts.

None of it contradicts the Bible what-so-ever. It’s simply told in different time tables than the centuries of Telephone Game the Biblical texts went through before being written down.


I wasn’t arguing with you, I just found what I posted interesting and shared it.

I am nothing special. In my family and in our congregation, we have always studied Scripture. My dad was an elder in our congregation until he passed away. His dad - my grandpa, was also an elder. Sometimes we gathered together just to study Scripture.

Knowledge is good, but much studying is not what saves us.

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I’m still learning how to sound less confrontational. I’m seriously in no position to quote the Bible to someone with encyclopedic knowledge of its passages, but I also won’t waste your time making things up just to suit my own biases.

You have deep knowledge of the Bible, I have deep knowledge of remote history (or the evidence thereof, rather). Learning the latter is helping me to understand the former in new ways.

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I believe any person can allow their good to be overcome with evil and become an accuser/satan. We see it all the time, especially in religion.

"And I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren has been thrown down, who accuses them day and night before our God.” The Revelation 12:10

God needs nothing from us, "Thus says the LORD: “Heaven is my throne and the earth is my footstool; what is the house which you would build for me, and what is the place of my rest?” Isaiah 66:1

His disciples are the ones in need.

“But he who looks into the perfect law, the law of liberty, and perseveres, being no hearer that forgets but a doer that acts, he shall be blessed in his doing.” James 1:25

“If you really fulfil the royal law, according to the scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well.” James 2:8

The perfect law of Liberty is the law of Love. Love God, and Love one another.

“By this shall all men know that you are my disciples if you have love one to another.” John 13:35

“Love one another with brotherly affection; outdo one another in showing honor.” Romans 12:10

“With al lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering forbearing one another in love.” Ephesians 4:2

If God needs nothing from us, why did He create us?

“Spiritual death” is not a Biblical term. Death means death. Forever dead, never to be alive again.

Jesus spoke of eternal punishment, not continual eternal torture of souls that live continuously in some kind of agony and torture.

There are four words in our English Bible that are translated into a single English word, HELL.

Sheol – Hebrews word for the grave
Hades – Greek word for the grave
Gehanna and Tartarus – was the Valley outside of Jerusalem that was the town landfill and dump. It was located in the Valley of Hinnon and was the town garbage dump. The corpses of lawbreakers and animals were dumped there and burned. The fire and smoke were always visible. The maggots on the carcass’s is the meaning of “The worm that does not die” in scripture.

Tartarus also translated hell – the grave.

One who sits on a jury examines the facts. If we are “Biblical” we examine the facts of the Bible.

I am a seeker. That’s all. I seek out the truth from Scripture, I do not judge others.

“Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls — and he will be upheld, for the Master is able to make him stand.” Romans 14:4

“Let every one be fully convinced in his own mind. Why do you pass judgment on your brother?”

We are only responsible for the life we live. We can be an example for good, or an example for evil. It’s up to us to choose.

Because He wanted a family to love.

In Galatians 6 and Ephesians 2, the Apostle Paul calls believers “the household of faith” and refers to believers as “members of the household of God.”

He uses terms like “sons” and “children” to illustrate a family relationship — the spiritual relationships as a family – kinship… Those in Christ can appreciate this bond of being together equally in God’s family.

God glorifies us.

Are there Christians here who hold a non-supernatural view of God? :thinking:

Kind of a oxymoron there.

I would say that someone claiming that for themselves would be just as deluded as someone who believed he was actually a cat. They could say they are Christian, but that wouldn’t make them so.

Just my opinion, of course.

Not sure I follow. In my view, I see God as the most natural thing that there is.

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Then we have different views of what Natural and Supernatural mean.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Can God make a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it?

Not interested in going there.

I don’t believe in “angels” or other supernatural things, so none in the actual existence we find ourselves in. Most of those were astrological references anyway.

Lucifer = Comet Encke
Michael = The Moon

They both collided once. The moon is still there. Encke is no longer a 60 mile wide comet that “Brings More Light” than the “arch angel”.

This “paradox” reduces God to a human form.

But, my answer is, “If He chose to.”


If you can’t see Him, how can you think He is non-supernatural?