I Have a Question About Crime

[SixFoot]

@margaretms2

That’s appears to be reversing, e.g., https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2021/12/31/skilled-trade-education-comeback/

Day late and a dollar short for the largest generation in American history.

Good on some areas for getting back to basics.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Guilds

@PurpnGold

If we are choosing not to give out life sentences for certain crimes, then those prisoners need a pathway to being productive citizens. If we aren’t going to do that then every who goes to prison should be there for life.

Compare our recidivism rate, to other countries that do not treat their inmates like dogs.

ie Norway…about 20% recidivism rate USA recidivism rate about 75%

That’s part of it. A robust social safety net probably doesn’t hurt either.

[conan]

@PurpnGold

Why would early releases contribute to crime? Are you saying I’d they are released 1-5 years later they suddenly wouldn’t commit crimes when they got out?

Depending on crime I don’t thin they should be released ever…ever.

And I’m talking about arm robbery as well. Or at least minimal 20 year sentence.

Rape…never see freedom again.

Murder…if it’s not justifiable they never see freedom again.

No matter how you help them, if they relapse someone is raped or killed.

[Oryx]

@DMK

@Oryx

I agree that would help prevent crime, but it wouldn’t do much to rehabilitate the prison industrial complex.

What do the two have to do with each other?

Putting more people into the prison industrial complex would grow it, not shrink it, so adding people to the system would worsen one of the problems put forth in the OP.

[Samson_Corwell]

@Oryx

@DMK

Reopen mental institutions, put criminals behind bars where they belong.

You skipped past this part:

@WuWei

I will be the first to say that we live in a police state. No one knows how many laws there are, the police are out of control as a group and what the judiciary does is unconscionable. Far too many of our citizens are locked up, many for things that shouldn’t even be a crime. The prison industrial complex is an abomination.

You want more police, more laws, and more people imprisoned and involuntarily committed to mental institutions?

Obviously not.

[WuWei]

@Sknyluv

We can start by recognizing that police don’t prevent crime.

I couldn’t agree more.

[WuWei]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/amp/Funeral-to-start-in-death-of-Harris-County-17065645.php

[WuWei]

@margaretms2

But it makes me wonder if some of the important causal factors are unrelated (or only indirectly related) to government policies around policing or incarceration.

Can you expound on this please.

[WuWei]

@PurpnGold

Crime went up everywhere in 2021.

Why?
…

[WuWei]

@PurpnGold

That’s the issue with our current prison system. We do not rehabilitate.

What percentage do you believe can be rehabilitated?

[Axxowiz]

I am all for rehabilitation for those that can be. Which means if they can be rehabilitated and let out on a first term offense they should be helped by the state to find a job whereas many felons cannot with that on their record.

However when it clearly becomes a situation of a repeat offender regular functioning citizens shouldn’t be shouldered with the extra risk of these individuals on the street.

[Gaius]

@margaretms2

Re: where it’s been, where it is, where it’s going: What do people attribute the overall decline in violent crime over the last 30 years? I know I’ve wondered about the causal factors. Seems important.

https://crime-data-explorer.fr.cloud.gov/#

It probably makes sense to look at the question in a longer term context. We might also want to adjust for the fact that we often misperceive the amount crime in the aggregate.

I don’t know if we are still feeling the effects, but the decline in crime began when state after state began enacting 3-strikes laws.

Tht was what? 30 years ago? I have to imagine there is more at work than just that one factor, but that’s where the decline began.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Oryx

@DMK

@Oryx

I agree that would help prevent crime, but it wouldn’t do much to rehabilitate the prison industrial complex.

What do the two have to do with each other?

Putting more people into the prison industrial complex would grow it, not shrink it, so adding people to the system would worsen one of the problems put forth in the OP.

Also, we did this lock 'em up and throw away the key shtick. Anybody remember the 90’s crime bill?

[Gaius]

Yes. And that seems to be exactly when violent crime rates started dropping. I find it hard to believe that one bill caused all this goodness all these years later so I imagine other factor are involved
(aging baby boomers? switch in drugs from crack to something else? I dunno.

Obviously it was good law. Obviously it worked, but I cannot imagine that one bill had this much positive impact

[WuWei]

My question to progs and crits is: What is the outcome of all of this?

Where do you see us ending up?

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Gaius

Yes. And that seems to be exactly when violent crime rates started dropping. I find it hard to believe that one bill caused all this goodness all these years later so I imagine other factor are involved
(aging baby boomers? switch in drugs from crack to something else? I dunno.

Obviously it was good law. Obviously it worked, but I cannot imagine that one bill had this much positive impact

Well, as has been pointed out several times in the thread, there are multiple factors at play here. To try to isolate it to a single thing is a fool’s errand.

[Samm]

@Guilds

@PurpnGold

If we are choosing not to give out life sentences for certain crimes, then those prisoners need a pathway to being productive citizens. If we aren’t going to do that then every who goes to prison should be there for life.

Compare our recidivism rate, to other countries that do not treat their inmates like dogs.

ie Norway…about 20% recidivism rate USA recidivism rate about 75%

There are very few similarities between American society and Norwegian society. It’s a fools game to attempt to make a point by comparing something with so many variables like the recidivism rate between the two countries.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@Samm

@Guilds

@PurpnGold

If we are choosing not to give out life sentences for certain crimes, then those prisoners need a pathway to being productive citizens. If we aren’t going to do that then every who goes to prison should be there for life.

Compare our recidivism rate, to other countries that do not treat their inmates like dogs.

ie Norway…about 20% recidivism rate USA recidivism rate about 75%

There are very few similarities between American society and Norwegian society. It’s a fools game to attempt to make a point by comparing something with so many variables like the recidivism rate between the two countries.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. America is so super awesome, we can’t or shouldn’t look elsewhere for better ideas.

[Samm]

I didn’t say anything about one country or then other being better or worse than the other.

[Guvnah]

Just putting this out there:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/facing-massive-crime-waves-california-cities-spent-covid-relief-funds-on-police/ar-AAW15DL?li=BBnb7Kz