Hey Fox News. The Democrat Leadership does not want to end capitalism in the U.S

fallenturtle · 2020-09-12T01:04:13.665Z

WuWei:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

Sums up “progressive” tax schemes pretty well, I’d say.

Are you claiming that progressive taxation is Marxism?

WuWei · 2020-09-12T02:03:01.044Z

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

I don’t see how anyone capable of critical thinking could see an incongruency between the above statement and a progressive tax scheme or wealth redistribution in general.

The statement is obviously the principle underlying both.

NJBob · 2020-09-12T02:18:35.353Z

Would you prefer,

“To each according to their ability, with nothing to each according to their need”?

fallenturtle · 2020-09-12T06:37:57.528Z

Well if you aren’t claiming that progressive taxation is Marxism, why did you bring it up?

johnwk2 · 2020-09-12T12:32:30.609Z

fallenturtle:

Well if you aren’t claiming that progressive taxation is Marxism, why did you bring it up?

The quote: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” was apparently brought up because it personifies another characteristic defining communism, a characteristic which is advocated by the communist/socialist controlled Democrat Leadership, e.g.:

When the Democrat Party Leadership advocates like a communist, lives like a communist, and displays other characteristics which define communists, surely they must be COMMUNISTS.

JWK

When it comes to healthcare, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris have no moral compass whatsoever. They refuse to make the distinction between CHARITABLE GIVING and tax tyranny to support the health care needs of millions of illegal entrants.

fallenturtle · 2020-09-12T19:28:11.571Z

johnwk2:

fallenturtle:

Well if you aren’t claiming that progressive taxation is Marxism, why did you bring it up?

The quote: “From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” was apparently brought up because it personifies another characteristic defining communism, a characteristic which is advocated by the communist/socialist controlled Democrat Leadership, e.g.:

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez wants to tax the super wealthy 70 percent! - YouTube

Progressive taxation is not unique Marxism… unless you are claiming the USA has been Marxist since we started having one. Are you?

I don’t think there would be taxation under communism because there’s nothing to tax.

johnwk2:

When the Democrat Party Leadership advocates like a communist, lives like a communist, and displays other characteristics which define communists, surely they must be COMMUNISTS.

I responded to this same statement over here.

WuWei · 2020-09-12T19:34:01.360Z

Which is a “progressive” tax scheme.

johnwk2 · 2020-09-13T13:21:18.701Z

WuWei:

Which is a “progressive” tax scheme.

Exactly! One of the identifying characteristics which define communists is their love affair with a “progressive” tax scheme, which is used to accomplish the following:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

JWK

They are neither “liberals” nor “progressives”. They are conniving Marxist/Communist/Socialist parasites who use government force to steal and then enjoy the property which labor, business and investors have worked to create.

johnwk2 · 2020-09-14T19:27:26.983Z

fallenturtle:

Progressive taxation is not unique Marxism

But both Marxists and Progressive Leaders live by the same oppressive rule when it comes to taxation:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

The fact is, when the Democrat Party Leadership advocates characteristics which identify communist thinking, surely the must be COMMUNISTS.

JWK

The walkaway movement is the socialist/communist democrat leadership’s worse nightmare

fallenturtle · 2020-09-14T19:48:59.524Z

johnwk2:

fallenturtle:

Progressive taxation is not unique Marxism

But both Marxists and Progressive Leaders live by the same oppressive rule when it comes to taxation:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

Again, progressive taxation is not unique to Marxism.

Are claiming the USA has been Marxist since we started having one?

The fact is, when the Democrat Party Leadership advocates characteristics which identify communist thinking, surely the must be COMMUNISTS.

The Nazis were anti-communist, very nationalistic, and not fond of GLBT people, just like U.S. conservatives. Does that mean U.S. conservatives are Nazis? Of course not, because such simplistic thinking is stupid, juvenile, and leads to making inaccurate statements.

johnwk2 · 2020-09-14T22:02:05.319Z

fallenturtle:

johnwk2:

fallenturtle:

Progressive taxation is not unique Marxism

But both Marxists and Progressive Leaders live by the same oppressive rule when it comes to taxation:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

Again, progressive taxation is not unique to Marxism.

No one said it was, and, you are repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that both Marxists and Progressive Leaders live by the same oppressive rule when it comes to taxation:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

JWK

Joe Biden and the Democrat Leadership wants elderly American citizens, who paid into Medicare all their lives, to surrender and share their healthcare revenue with the millions of foreigners who have invaded America’s borders. LINK

fallenturtle · 2020-09-14T22:14:44.817Z

johnwk2:

fallenturtle:

johnwk2:

fallenturtle:

Progressive taxation is not unique Marxism

But both Marxists and Progressive Leaders live by the same oppressive rule when it comes to taxation:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

Again, progressive taxation is not unique to Marxism.

No one said it was, and, you are repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that both Marxists and Progressive Leaders live by the same oppressive rule when it comes to taxation:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

Not really. For Marxist the context is that each person gives labor according to his ability and receives what they need for life. To apply this to a system of progressive taxation and welfare it would really be “From each according to their ability to pay, to each who needs help living a decent life.” These are two different mindsets.

johnwk2 · 2020-09-14T22:34:29.410Z

fallenturtle:

johnwk2:

fallenturtle:

johnwk2:

fallenturtle:

Progressive taxation is not unique Marxism

But both Marxists and Progressive Leaders live by the same oppressive rule when it comes to taxation:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

Again, progressive taxation is not unique to Marxism.

No one said it was, and, you are repeating yourself and ignoring the fact that both Marxists and Progressive Leaders live by the same oppressive rule when it comes to taxation:

“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs”

Not really. For Marxist the context is that each person gives labor according to his ability and receives what they need for life. To apply this to a system of progressive taxation and welfare it would really be “From each according to their ability to pay, to each who needs help living a decent life.” These are two different mindsets.

Well, that confirms both communist and progressive leaders have no moral compass whatsoever. They refuse to make the distinction between CHARITABLE GIVING and tax tyranny to support the needy.

In other words, they do not embrace and support a fundamental maxim:

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s property

There is an enormous distinction between CHARITABLE GIVING and tax tyranny to support the needy. The communist/socialist controlled Democrat Party Leadership advocates tax tyranny to support the needy, i.e., using the power of direct taxation to rob the property earned by a hard working person in exchange for his/her labor, which is then redistributed by the hand of government to another individual for their personal economic needs. Under these circumstances there is no magic wand which changes an act amounting the theft and tyranny. One of our notable forefathers summarized this principle as follows:

“Under a just and equal Government, every individual is entitled to protection in the enjoyment of the whole product of his labor, except such portion of it as is necessary to enable Government to protect the rest; this is given only in consideration of the protection offered. In every bounty, exclusive right, or monopoly, Government violates the stipulation on her part; for, by such a regulation, the product of one man’s labor is transferred to the use and enjoyment of another. The exercise of such a right on the part of Government can be justified on no other principle, than that the whole product of the labor or every individual is the real property of Government, and may be distributed among the several parts of the community by government discretion; such a supposition would directly involve the idea, that every individual in the community is merely a slave and bondsman to Government, who, although he may labor, is not to expect protection in the product of his labor. An authority given to any Government to exercise such a principle, would lead to a complete system of tyranny.” ___ See Representative Giles, speaking before Congress February 3rd, 1792

Tell me, fallenturtle , are you so blind to not see the injustice when direct taxation is used in such a fashion? When a political party’s leadership goes so far as to disrespecting rights associated with property ownership, and uses its power to confiscate the property of one individual which is then transferred to another individual by the hand of government, are you really incapable of seeing the injustice of such an act?

JWK

“The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.” ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)

fallenturtle · 2020-09-14T22:50:00.966Z

johnwk2:

Well, that confirms both communist and progressive leaders have no moral compass whatsoever. They refuse to make the distinction between CHARITABLE GIVING and tax tyranny to support the needy.

In other words, they do not embrace and support a fundamental maxim:

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbor’s property

Morality is relative. I support progressive taxation and I support welfare and I consider myself a moral person.

johnwk2:

There is an enormous distinction between CHARITABLE GIVING and tax tyranny to support the needy. The communist/socialist controlled Democrat Party Leadership advocates tax tyranny to support the needy, i.e., using the power of direct taxation to rob the property earned by a hard working person in exchange for his/her labor, which is then redistributed by the hand of government to another individual for their personal economic needs. Under these circumstances there is no magic wand which changes an act amounting the theft and tyranny. One of our notable forefathers summarized this principle as follows:

“Under a just and equal Government, every individual is entitled to protection in the enjoyment of the whole product of his labor, except such portion of it as is necessary to enable Government to protect the rest; this is given only in consideration of the protection offered. In every bounty, exclusive right, or monopoly, Government violates the stipulation on her part; for, by such a regulation, the product of one man’s labor is transferred to the use and enjoyment of another. The exercise of such a right on the part of Government can be justified on no other principle, than that the whole product of the labor or every individual is the real property of Government, and may be distributed among the several parts of the community by government discretion; such a supposition would directly involve the idea, that every individual in the community is merely a slave and bondsman to Government, who, although he may labor, is not to expect protection in the product of his labor. An authority given to any Government to exercise such a principle, would lead to a complete system of tyranny.” ___ See Representative Giles, speaking before Congress February 3rd, 1792

Tell me, Clara, are you so blind to not see the injustice when direct taxation is used in such a fashion? When a political party’s leadership goes so far as to disrespecting rights associated with property ownership, and uses its power to confiscate the property of one individual which is then transferred to another individual by the hand of government, are you really incapable of seeing the injustice of such an act?

JWK

“The property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable. The patrimony of the poor man lies in the strength and dexterity of his own hands; and to hinder him from employing this strength and dexterity in what manner he thinks proper, without injury to his neighbor, is a plain violation of this most sacred property.” ___ Butchers’ Union Co. v. Crescent City Co., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)

lol, I was going to ask who Clara was, but then realized you copied this whole reply from a different forum.

johnwk2 · 2020-09-14T22:54:16.301Z

I suggest you remove that link [a different forum] I believe It violates the rules. I do not want to see you given a time out.

fallenturtle · 2020-09-14T22:58:28.243Z

johnwk2:

I suggest you remove that link [a different forum] I believe It violates the rules. I do not want to see you given a time out.

Which rule does it violate? I don’t see anything against posting links to other forums.

johnwk2 · 2020-09-14T23:01:35.618Z

fallenturtle:

lol, I was going to ask who Clara was, but then realized you copied this whole reply from a different forum (link temporarily removed while I double check the rules).

Actually, I didn’t copy the whole reply from a different forum. I copied it from a general reply I have which I post and relates to the specific subject matter. I forgot to include you name as opposed to the other person’s name.

JWK

johnwk2 · 2020-09-14T23:08:52.365Z

fallenturtle:

Morality is relative. I support progressive taxation and I support welfare and I consider myself a moral person.

So, using the force of government to take the property earned by the sweat of person’s labor and transferring it to another is “moral” by your standards?

Seems to me, even our Supreme Court confirms such an act is “robbery”

“To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen [a working person’s earned wage] and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation.” __ Savings and Loan Association v.Topeka,(1875)

JWK

NJBob · 2020-09-14T23:14:23.490Z

johnwk2:

So, using the force of government to take the property earned by the sweat of person’s labor and transferring to another is “moral” by your standards?

So, taxing capital gains is moral? Cool, we agree.

fallenturtle · 2020-09-14T23:22:18.735Z

johnwk2:

So, using the force of government to take the property earned by the sweat of person’s labor and transferring it to another is “moral” by your standards?

Yes, assuming such tax laws and welfare programs were enacted by representatives voted for by the citizens and that the citizens are free to leave the country if they don’t want to agree to the laws.

johnwk2:

Seems to me, even our Supreme Court confirms such an act is “robbery”

“To lay with one hand the power of the government on the property of the citizen [a working person’s earned wage] and with the other to bestow upon favored individuals, to aid private enterprises and build up private fortunes is none the less a robbery because it is done under forms of law and called taxation.” __ Savings and Loan Association v.Topeka,(1875)

No one is building a fortune off welfare.