Either way we are losers!

Either way we lose .

Guilty or innocent, we lose. If Trump was guilty of anything he was accused of, then Americans lose. IF Trump was innocent of all charges, Americans lose again. In either case, nobody has been held accountable. What are the repercussions to our posterity if government is beyond accountability?

Perhaps the Peoples Republic of China is too draconian a comparison to be taken seriously. Contrarily, perhaps it is the comparison necessary during these times of crisis. As the elderly are being denied treatment in Italy, and as we struggle with shortages of vital equipment and medicines, the reality of scarcity confronts our paradigm of security and abundance.

Recent reports describe forecast shortages for decades, in case of pandemic. Our governments, local, state and federal have failed to prepare. Good thing they are skilled at pointing fingers. However, history provides many examples of governments beyond the reach of the people. Consider the Great leap forward and the consequences. Consequences amplified by government lies and of course lack of accountability, except to Mao the despot.

Whether the death total was 18 or 45 million is immaterial. What is material, is that a few made decisions for the many, and the many suffered while the few did not. Six years after the epic policy failure we can look towards the cultural revolution and additional deaths that are again hard to quantify. Other powerful nations have also engaged in campaigns of mass murder, all in the name of the people. The collectivization of Ukrainian agriculture leaps to mind. Be mindful of those that claim to serve the people.

After Mao, Deng Xiaoping established the one child policy. What happens when there are not enough young to support the aged. Japan has the largest percentage of the population of over sixty-five years old at 27%, followed by Italy and Other Western European countries. China only has 10.6% over 65. Japan and Italy are also near the top in terms of life expectancy averaging 84 years. China is relatively shorter at 76.6 years while the United States is 78.81 years.

A striking data point occurs when you look at the percentage of working age people (15 – 64) in the demographics data. China is 71.7%, Japan is only 60%, Italy is 63.5% while America is 65.7%. Finally, we can see that less than 15 years old will be an indication of an emerging labor force. China has 17.7% under 15, Japan 12.9%, Italy 13.5% and the United States 19.9%. Imagine the fiscal burdens of those nations with an elderly population almost double the ratio of young people. What must governments do to cope with dynamic demographic challenges. Does this context contribute to the call for open borders?

WE know that powerful states can take powerful and decisive measures to counter a crisis. However, we also know that those same governments, in large measure, are responsible for the policies that created the crises. Consider this as we debate the proper role of government in our economy, and in our personal lives, as we get accustomed to quarantine. Wait, is that debate taking place? It is all for the good of the community, is the claim despots have always made. Trump illustrates, no matter which side you stand on, that our government is not accountable and indeed are immune from consequences.

Now, we look at our new enemy. No, not China, the Corona Virus. Wait, we did just announce we were realigning our forces to focus on China. Consider the current changes to our lives, and those that champion staying home to save lives. While some want to recommend, others insist what must de done. Don’t be selfish, stay home. A short-term sacrifice of freedom for public safety is noble. Yet, once you get accustomed to a hot bath, it isn’t so hot. We adapt as people, we survive, but will we prevail as we become accustomed to societal norms that may forever alter our social engagements, our economic opportunity, and our dreams? What will we sacrifice for the greater good, and security? Are we experiencing a trial run at the green new deal? How do you like staying home?

If you live in China, what questions do you ask about the Virus? If your government has exterminated millions for the greater good, do you wonder about this outbreak or collapsing buildings? Or, have you forgotten how to question, after generations of oppression? Have you lost your individual identity in order to serve that elusive greater good?

How will the West respond to mass prohibitions in pursuit of public health? Will the elderly being sacrificed due to medical rationing become the new acceptable norm? How does this emerging dynamic influence the Medicare for all debate? Are Americans so far removed from rugged individualism, self-reliance and independent thought that we would embrace becoming subjects of the greater good at the mercy of appointed officials? Do we want to have to ask an official, for medical treatment?

We do not live in China. We do not live in Russia. The question that remains open is, will we live in America? Is America a geography or an idea? Can America remain America if we adopt policies that transform our culture into accepting behavior that heretofore only existed in despotic nations. One way or another, Americans need an accountable government, or to do away with the systems beyond accountability

Brevity is your fiend.

Nobody wants to read a eleven paragraph OP.

Make your opening statement brief if you want people to take notice and engage.


Agree. We can be anti authoritarian and brief.

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I had the same problem when I first started posting on forums.

Before people are willing to really listen to what you have to say or read a long post you first have to get them engaged.

Anymore when I see a Wall O Text OP I just go elsewhere.

That is probably the biggest problem in modern day political engagement. I can imagine in matters of deep philosophical divide what the authors of the Federalist papers would have said to be brief. probably we were brief.

No intent to ignore the fact that very few read the Federalists at the time but today they are a reference standard in American history.

If 800 words is too long then our republic certainly has failed.

Simply a fact.

If you want to share your opinions the first thing you have to do is engage the audience and get them interested in what you have to say.

Wall O Text OP’s will never accomplish that hence the reason your threads tend to die quickly if they get any response at all.

I don’t know the exact wording but there’s an old saying… “I’d of written you a shorter note but didn’t have the time”.

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America has long strayed off the path of righteousness, into the garden of deceit. Rabbi Shmuley Boteach has great insight that is worth listening to in this regard. For far too long America has been allowing the infection of the soul, and only now that the body is under attack, do we react with repudiation of China policy.

We have slowly accepted the atrocious behavior of mainland China towards their people, placing profit over morality. Even PETA can acknowledge that the wet markets in China are literally jam packed with violations of the ethical treatment of animals. But the bigger violations are those of human rights that have enriched the Chinese government by our complacency. And for what? To get a $100 off some good that could be produced in our own or another nation that doesn’t abuse its people? We’ve policed the world over far less, but allow China unrestricted true evil because we’re getting cheap goods off their backs.

We’ve lost our soul as a nation that stands for the will of the people, by the people and for the people. We’ve sold out.

In Christian teachings, our deeds on earth are supposed to project our faith. Our heavenly bodies are protected by the lamb, and our earthly bodies aren’t of much importance.

We have it backwards in regards to China. Our earthly bodies now under attack, our deeds already spent through patronizing an evil empire’s subjugation of its people, we fight a battle that we’ve waged against ourselves.

Sorry to get deep, but that’s what I took from the good Rabbi.


At least it wasn’t what I consider a wall of text. I thought it was written pretty well. I had no problem reading it.

Thanks for taking the time to contribute. I left god out of the OP for brevity. Yet, I am more focused on what we do in America versus safeguarding the corporations of purposes of trade. It is the policies of redistribution of wealth abroad that fosters the democratic socialists at home.

GW knows the secret.

Hint, it’s Paragraphing. :grin:

Only losers if patriots allow the Constitution to be trampled by lawyers pretending to be the people’s benefactor s while setting themselves up to live under a different set of rules from the people. Politicians should have to abide by the same laws as they impose on everyone else, and should not be allowed to give themselves privileges for which the common citizen is excluded. And they need to be severely sanctioned if they do. A two tier justice system will make a state a failure.

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In 1918 cities and municipalities shut down temporarily in an effort to deal with the Spanish Flu.

Nobody turned those temporary measures into a worry that “rugged individualism was being forever trampled, and we would forever be at the mercy of the state”.

People recognized it was a horrible but temporary national crisis and they dealt with it.

This was in 1918, when Americans were supposedly “more in tune” with the philosophical and political beliefs of the Founders than they are today.

This also showed that social distancing is not some brand new “government scheme” being rolled out as a “trial run” to see how easily the people are willing to “be subjugated”.

It has literally been the playbook for response to widespread infectious disease for centuries.

People who are afraid we are being tested for a future seizure of power should just be honest about what they are suggesting.

That we should have just let the virus run its course and see what happened.

One thing that would, of course, have happened, is that there most definitely would have been those decisions about who got potential life saving treatment and who didn’t. But I suppose since that would have happened at our choosing and not some “government mandate”…that makes it more palatable?

What does that mean?

Trip was a member on the old board that wrote 5,000 word posts.

So you copied that wall of text to ask him if he is a different guy?

This just reminded me that the cluster ■■■■ that is 2020 would be made complete if the Yellowstone Caldera finally blows its top.

Hopefully this expert isn’t wrong that it’s not imminent.


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I’ve indicated what I meant. That’s what you asked me. Make of it what you want.

How long did those shutdowns last?

Was it social distancing that led to the Spanish flu going away or did it just lessen the amount infected at one time, thus lessening the burden on healthcare?

What caused the end of the Spanish Flu? Was it because it was seasonal? I haven’t been able to find information on that.

Is covid19 seasonal?

Are we thinking long-term in dealing with this?