Does what happened in Afghanistan demonstrate why many of these lousy countries never change?

[sikofit]

@Eagle-Keeper

You make very good points, which begs the question why the ■■■■ do our highly paid and ostensibly highly educated and experienced secretaries of state, diplomats, military leaders, and every politician in positions to make decisions on such matters don’t seem to know this also?

money. War is good business

[Eagle-Keeper]

@sikofit

@Eagle-Keeper

You make very good points, which begs the question why the ■■■■ do our highly paid and ostensibly highly educated and experienced secretaries of state, diplomats, military leaders, and every politician in positions to make decisions on such matters don’t seem to know this also?

money. War is good business

The Obama/Biden Administration?

[sikofit]

@Eagle-Keeper

@sikofit

@Eagle-Keeper

You make very good points, which begs the question why the ■■■■ do our highly paid and ostensibly highly educated and experienced secretaries of state, diplomats, military leaders, and every politician in positions to make decisions on such matters don’t seem to know this also?

money. War is good business

The Obama/Biden Administration?

It looks like Biden is going a different route but absolutely.

I voted for Obama in 2008 because I thought he would be different and stop the endless wars. Instead he ratcheted things up… Almost 50% of all fighting over 20 years happened in his 1st term. That wasn’t the Hope and Change I voted for. He did not get my vote in 2012.

[Supreme_War_Pig]

For what it’s worth, I think Obama was cowed by the defense and intelligence briefers, who likely spun all sorts of dire, doomsday scenarios. No president wants to helm a failed war. Remember, Biden was against the 2009 surge that Obama ultimately approved.

Even Trump set his withdrawal date after the 2020 election (and his presumptive re-election), so it wouldn’t be an albatross.

I am sure similar pressure was brought against Biden, who stuck to his guns and completed the withdrawal. The point: while the withdrawal was bungled, I am grateful at long last that somebody ended our involvement in Afghanistan.

[TommyLucchese]

@Eagle-Keeper

So you have a country of 40 million people that literally folded up like a cheap suit to handful of vile scumbags in a matter of a few days. So in twenty years the majority of people in this country could not develop the cohesiveness, the desire, the thoughtfulness, etc., to be self-governed? To develop a modern society? To make things better for all their people?

Why is it decade after decade after decade in many countries things never get better?

Lol Afghanistan suffering through forty five consecutive years of civil war and occupation may have something to do with it.

[TommyLucchese]

@sikofit

I voted for Obama in 2008 because I thought he would be different and stop the endless wars.

Obama openly campaigned on surging troops to Afghanistan. He did actually wind down Iraq.

[Cratic3947]

@Eagle-Keeper

So you have a country of 40 million people that literally folded up like a cheap suit to handful of vile scumbags in a matter of a few days. So in twenty years the majority of people in this country could not develop the cohesiveness, the desire, the thoughtfulness, etc., to be self-governed? To develop a modern society? To make things better for all their people?

Why is it decade after decade after decade in many countries things never get better?

The UN and there stupid goals that tee people off. Oh, and foreign aid just corrupts govts. They just want foreign money and don’t care what happens in the country. Look at the ex-pres of afghan.

Our govt lies to US…

[sikofit]

@TommyLucchese

@sikofit

I voted for Obama in 2008 because I thought he would be different and stop the endless wars.

Obama openly campaigned on surging troops to Afghanistan. He did actually wind down Iraq.

Yeah I remember that. A surge that would turn the tide. The surge worked (sort of), he got Bin Laden yet we stayed an additional 10 years

[TommyLucchese]

@sikofit

Yeah I remember that. A surge that would turn the tide. The surge worked (sort of), he got Bin Laden yet we stayed an additional 10 years

I dunno by that point I’m not even sure what the mission was in Afghanistan and apparently neither did anyone else.

The politics of the time demanded that liberals want to fight somebody if it wasn’t Iraq. It’s like that Simpsons line: “Nuke the whales?” “Gotta nuke something.”

I think sometimes we forget exactly how bloodthirsty we still were as a nation even after seven, eight years.

[sikofit]

@TommyLucchese

@sikofit

Yeah I remember that. A surge that would turn the tide. The surge worked (sort of), he got Bin Laden yet we stayed an additional 10 years

I dunno by that point I’m not even sure what the mission was in Afghanistan and apparently neither did anyone else.

The politics of the time demanded that liberals want to fight somebody if it wasn’t Iraq. It’s like that Simpsons line: “Nuke the whales?” “Gotta nuke something.”

I think sometimes we forget exactly how bloodthirsty we still were as a nation even after seven, eight years.

I agree on all points. I personally was already over rhe war in general by the time Obama was elected but I definitely had bloodlust at the beginning and wanted people to pay for 911.

[wiley8425]

Especially considering most, if not all, of those countries have been around a hell of lot longer than this one.

[margaretms2]

I don’t know. It’s weird. I understand why we were in Afghanistan, at least. That was before the Iraq war completely destroyed the idea that experts and Serious People would operate as a backstop to world-historical blunders.

[TommyLucchese]

@margaretms2

I don’t know. It’s weird. I understand why we were in Afghanistan, at least. That was before the Iraq war completely destroyed the idea that experts and Serious People would operate as a backstop to world-historical blunders.

Yes, it is important to note that the Bush administration’s desperation to justify an invasion of Iraq is what changed the mission in Afghanistan from “run the Taliban out of power, root up Al Qaeda and install a friendly regime” to “we’re going to bring democracy to the savages and turn their country into Disneyland South Asia.”

[Supreme_War_Pig]

@margaretms2

I don’t know. It’s weird. I understand why we were in Afghanistan, at least. That was before the Iraq war completely destroyed the idea that experts and Serious People would operate as a backstop to world-historical blunders.

I fear that idea is evergreen.

[occu]

@WuWei

@EternalVigilance

@WuWei

If you’re a Muslim?

If you’re a female Muslim, 100%.

I’ve heard differing opinions. From female Muslims.

I grew up in a very conservative Christian family which I believe held my mother back from advancing professionally and intellectually. She wasn’t forced, she made her own informed decisions. Personally I don’t agree with them but she is happy.

Did the Muslim women you talked to have a similar situation? I see similarities with conservative Muslims and Christians. My opinion you believe what you want, but don’t force your views on me.

[WuWei]

@EternalVigilance

@WuWei

If you’re a Muslim?

If you’re a female Muslim, 100%.

Isn’t that for them to decide?

[margaretms2]

@Supreme_War_Pig

@margaretms2

I don’t know. It’s weird. I understand why we were in Afghanistan, at least. That was before the Iraq war completely destroyed the idea that experts and Serious People would operate as a backstop to world-historical blunders.

I fear that idea is evergreen.

If you start reading/hearing people talk about the “will”—that’s always a bad sign: *The ________ (insert “American people,” or whoever) didn’t have the will to win in Afghanistan. Also, any variations or suggestions of back-stabbing on the homefront, or whatever–you know that’s possible fuel for the next crusade. But who knows?

[peek-a-boo]

A scene in Quigley Down Under comes to mind. Towards the end of the movie an aborigine is shown in his butler outfit. He was forced to live in that situation for years. When Quigley killed the owner of the plantation, the aborigine’s shed their modern clothing and and faded barefoot into the wilderness.

So too with the Afghan’s. The last 20 years of American occupation there, did nothing to erase thousands of years of tradition. That is a hard lesson, America has yet to learn. Not everyone on this earth yearns for Western values.

[WuWei]

So too with Americans.

[SixFoot]

The older the culture, the more decay.