DEI and ATC discussion

Politics
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Over in the thread dedicated to the recent crash, the conversation turned to DEI because of Trump’s comments at his press conference. We were asked to take DEI/ATC talk elsewhere.

It’s interesting to note, that this is what Trump does so often…diverts and capitalizes…

Here, a tragedy happens days into his presidency. Instead of consoling, mourning and bringing us together, he throws out this crazy red meat claim about DEI…and now, instead of mourning together, we’re bickering about DEI…

Sad way to lead a country.

Here is an article that quotes a former FAA official who says DEI doesn’t apply to ATC hires.

DEI and any similar programs do not apply to air traffic control hiring, though – no one is given preferential treatment for race, sex, ethnicity or sexual orientation, a former FAA official told ABC News.

Applicants must pass a medical exam, an aptitude test and a psychological test that is more stringent than that required of a pilot, said Chris Wilbanks, FAA deputy vice president of safety and technical training.

In 2022, 57,000 people applied for an ATC position, Wilbanks said, and 2,400 qualified to attend the academy. Of that 2,400, only 1,000 made it to the first day of training.

Wilbanks said 72% make it through the academy and roughly 60% of those will finish training.

According to the FAA, the training process lasts about three to four years from the hire date. Applicants must be younger than 31 and must retire by age 55.

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Good opening @TNT. I expect it to get rough and tumble if others follow. but tit for tat is okay as long as it doesn’t get personal.

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Yeah, we’ll see. I wonder if this will become a thread about DEI and the ATC and the shortages, or if it will become a thread about Trump’s baseless claims while the tragedy is still unfolding…

I think your comments about ATC shortages is really interesting, and perhaps the OP should have focused more on that, but honestly, my disappointment with the POTUS diversion is real.

But to your point -

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It looks like Biden did make progress, but from articles I read, we’re still lower than targets.

It’s a damn tough job. But I wonder if we just have to jack the pay to attract bright minds?

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I’m not bickering about DEI in relation to this particular incident. You don’t have to, either.

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Thank you for starting this thread.

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I have a hard time, based on the limited information know, assigning a high probability to DEI being a factor, even a minor one, in this crash. I also don’t see DEI as being the cause of the shortage.

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It’s tough.

On the one hand, what trump said is just wrong and ignorant and unsympathetic. So why give him credence on it.

On the other, he’s the POTUS, and ‘This crash was caused by DEI’ is already becoming true, supported by the national zeitgeist of hate for all things DEI, so his lies should be combated.

This is, really, the brilliance of Trump…this national tragedy is suddenly all about him, and what he wants to talk about - DEI…not dead americans in a river.

i honestly don’t know the right response to it all.

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I agree.

Ok! End thread? lol.

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I think in some ways it’s just an immensely stressful job that requires a lot of training, which shrinks the applicant pool dramatically. Pay increases would obviously help - at the moment the average wage for ATC’s in the DC are significantly lower than places like Chicago, Houston, Dallas… even Minneapolis. When you include the cost of living those pay discrepancies must be a barrier.

caveat: there are a lot more ATC’s in the DC area. It’s possible the average wage is lower because many are working small regional airports etc… I really don’t know.

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I don’t. That’s just Trump being Trump. I heard his DEI comment and immediately dismissed it. He is now saying he believes the helicopter was flying too high. That comment went in one ear and out the other.

LIBs need to learn to roll with it and not froth at the mouth.

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No, you comment in the post above is also a reasonable observation of the times. I voted for Trump and support his policy objectives, but I don’t think he is perfect and he does have a habit of speaking in a way that inflames.

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I see two choices. Ignore the comments or froth at the mouth.

Me personally, I rather enjoy seeing all the frothing. I know Norman does as well.

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I would agree, except that, you know full well that ‘DEI is to blame for the DC crash’ is going to become true for tons of americans now…and to just sit by and watch that happen, time and time again, and not urge others to consider the affects of supporting this guy as he gaslights America feels wrong.

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I think the qualifications need to be reviewed to make sure there aren’t subjective barriers to qualification. The first ones I would question are the age limits, both top and bottom. 55 seems arbitrary and is definitely forcing out the most experienced ATCs. I happen to think that 60 might be a more realistic top age. I would also think 35 would be a better minimum age to increase to pool of possible recruits.

After that pay has to be an issue.

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You are right about the herd effect. It is the same herd effect that occurred on the left with “Trump is Hitler”.

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I understand voting for policy to a point. I mean, jeez, when Bush one twice, I was bummed, and a felt a deep concern re: Iraq - like, really deep - but even with those disagreements, I…well, I mean, I just didn’t care who the president was! I mean, of course I cared. Of course I thought Gore would do a better job, and we wouldn’t have invaded Iraq, etc…

But on a kind of more personal, more base level ‘American’ way, I just didn’t worry to much about it.

But with Trump, and in inflaming statements, his disregard for the truth, and of course Jan 6 and election denialism…I find it hard to understand voting on the issues.

Sorry for the side track.

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Not the cause.

Nobody ever said it was the cause.

But fact show that it was/is a factor.

Which is what Trump said before you guys went bananas.

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You and I are but two individuals expressing our opinions on a political forum. Nothing we can say or do will change anyone’s mind.

Do I wish Trump would act more Presidential?

I have mixed feelings about that. If he was the model of presidential behavior, what would we talk about? My frothing camels would have to retire. What fun would that be?

Naahhhh…

I prefer Trump just as he is. I’ve learned to simply roll with the punches and to enjoy all of the LIB frothing. :rofl:

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  1. Trump was mostly talking about Bootyjudge.
  2. You quote bureaucrats zealously defending their bureacracy. And you believe them at face value.
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I don’t think we are to the point where it can be said that DEI was a factor yet. And DEI wouldn’t cause a shortage of ATCs, which is clearly going to be a factor, as we know the tower was understaffed that night.