And that “someone new” needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the “heart of the earth” is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.
rp5x5,
Your post #5 deals with issues for a different topic. Maybe you could start one.
Consider that it might not fit what you want, but that it IS dealing with the same issue of the meaning of the “heart of the earth.” and an element of experiential time, in a context you are unfamiliar with.
Jesus said He would be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights.
“For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” Matthew 12
“Jesus answered and said unto them, ‘Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up’”: But he spake of the temple of his body."
Jesus promised it and scripture proves His promise as being fulfilled completely. Jesus did exactly what he said He would do.
Men are wrong when they say Jesus arose the “first day of the week.”
Jesus was buried the evening of preparation day - Luke 23:54 “And that day was the preparation.” The time of lighting the lamps in the temple was about to begin.
He was buried at the end of Wednesday, and raised at the end of Saturday. He was raised at the end of the Sabbath, which corresponds with the exact time He was buried.
If Jesus was buried before sunset on Wednesday, the remaining minutes of Wednesday were one day, by Jewish inclusive reckoning. Wednesday night to Thursday dawn was one night. Thursday dawn to Thursday sunset: a second day. Thursday night to Friday dawn: a second night. Saturday dawn to Saturday sunset: a third day. Saturday night to a pre-dawn resurrection: a third night. (In total three days and three nights.)
Or Saturday dawn to a Saturday pre-sunset resurrection (as you are suggesting): a fourth day. (In total four days and three nights.)
However, Jesus said they would kill him and on the third day, within three days, after three days he would be raised. Jews reckoned the day on which the counting started as day one. That would be Wednesday, according to you. The second day would be Thursday, and the third day would be Friday. For Jesus to be raised on the third day, he would have to rise before Friday evening, not pre-dawn on Saturday.
All three expressions, “on the third day”, “within three days”, and “after three days” mean a part day plus a whole day plus a part day.
The solution is that Jesus was dead for either -Wednesday afternoon, Thursday and part of Thursday sunset to Friday sunset (three days by Jewish inclusive reckoning); or, Thursday afternoon, Friday and part of Friday sunset to Saturday sunset (three days by Jewish inclusive reckoning); or, Friday afternoon, Saturday and part of Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset (three days by Jewish inclusive reckoning).
And three days and three night in the heart of the earth did not mean three days buried in the ground, but something else. Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights. But according to Jonah 2, he was dead for only some of that time not all of it.
I started a new thread since the OP of this thread was not happy with some of the posts.
Piper,
re: “He was buried at the end of Wednesday, and raised at the end of Saturday.”
That would be an issue for a different topic.
Perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.
And that “someone new” needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the “heart of the earth” is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.
“there is no original text” - Nietzsche
who knows the exact phrase spoken in Aramaic which was translated from hearsay into ancient Greek and again into Latin before being rewritten by hand into English (and a myriad of other languages)
Since it’s been awhile perhaps someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.
The end of Wednesday = 1 day, the first day
Thursday = 2 days, the second day
Friday = 3 days, the third day
Saturday to it’s end = 4 days, the fourth day.
Hard to see how Jesus was raised on the third day by that scenario. Personally, I think the translation of en tEi kardiai tEs gEs as " in the heart of the earth" is wrong. It should be " in the heart of the land" . The heart of Israel was the temple Mount. Jesus was on the temple mount from his arrest about the midnight between Thursday and Friday, until his ascension to the Father on Resurrection Sunday morning after meeting Mary Magdalene. Three days and three nights.
I am not sure if these will suffice as some are from scripture and only one is an outside source, the Babylonian Talmud.
In Genesis 42, Joseph commands his brothers to be placed in prison for 3 days, but before the third day ends he brings them out. (Part of the day counted as a day). From 1786-1570 BC
David stumbles upon an Amalekite slave that had been abandoned for 3 days and 3 nights but the slave said it was only 3 days. Don’t know if this would show if Hebrew time reckoning was applied to the slave’s comment or it shows that the Amalekites also used the same reckoning for time. Somewhere between 1048 BC and 1011 BC.
Rehoboam tells Israel to give him three days to determine an answer and he gives it on the third day, instead of waiting for the night of the 3 day. C 931 BC
I Kings 20 states the armies camped for 7 days, but it was on the 7th day that they started to fight. (Part of the day counted as a day). Somewhere between 874 - 853 BC
In Esther 4:16 She tells all the Jews to fast for 3 days and three nights. Afterward, she would go to the king. In Esther 5:1 She goes to the king after 3 days have passed. C 479 BC.
Rabbi Elezar ben Azariah wrote “A day and night are an Onah and the portion of an Onah is as the whole of it.” (Jerusalem Talmud:Shabbath ix.3 and Babylonian Talmud:Pesahim 4a). Mishna, C 200 AD and Talmud C. 500 AD.
You’re looking at a span of over 1500 years in which a part of a day was considered a whole day.
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LeroyBrown,
re: “I am not sure if these will suffice…”
Only your Esther reference may be one example, but only if “three days, night or day” is the same thing as three nights and three days.
And again, that “someone new” needs to be someone who believes the crucifixion took place on the 6th day of the week with a 1st day of the week resurrection, and who thinks that the “heart of the earth” is referring to the tomb, and who tries to explain the lack of a 3rd night by saying that the Messiah was employing common figure of speech/colloquial language of the period.
Impenitent
re: “‘there is no original text’ - Nietzsche
who knows the exact phrase spoken in Aramaic which was translated from hearsay into ancient Greek and again into Latin before being rewritten by hand into English (and a myriad of other languages)”
That would be an issue for a different topic.
Jesus was crucified on a Friday, was in the tomb on Saturday and rose the first day of the week, which is Sunday. This really isn’t that difficult.
Merry Christmas to all. 
Was this before or after he started smoking opium and became insane?
Since it’s again been a while maybe someone new visiting this topic may know of examples.
How do you account for the lack of a third night?
