BREAKING: EU approves ban on fossil fuel cars beginning 2035

Well

This will shake things up.

Here’s one without a paywall

The UK will be banning new petrol and diesel cars starting in 2030.

Obviously the size of the UK makes it infinitely easier to create an electric charging infrastructure than the US and they are already well on their way.

Interesting times.

Notice…EU. :wink:

Seventy-six percent of the EU’s electricity comes from fossil fuels

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Silly Europeans…

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I do not anticipate a smooth transition.

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Explains why the German Big 3 (Volkswagen, Daimler-Mercedes, BMW) are electrifying faster than every other manufacturer in the business.

Granted, the US D3 are right behind them. Especially GM.

It’s the Japanese Super 3 (Toyota, Nissan, Honda) that are surprising to me. Their electrification efforts are almost two generations behind the American D3 or German B3. They were the first to push for hybridization (especially Toyota) but they are lagging big time on BEVs.

Even the Koreans are ahead of them. Hyundai Rotem (the owners of both Hyundai Motors and Kia) have already introduced competitive BEVs and have BEV versions of their most popular models (like the Sonata/K5) in the design works.

If the Japanese Super 3 don’t get their asses in gear they may find themselves unable to sell new cars in Europe.

The way they justify it is through some complex math.

According to some studies, EVs powered by a grid that uses fossil fuel are technically “cleaner” in regards to emissions than a traditional ICE powered vehicle. Considering how clean modern ICEs are relative to cars made just ten years ago, I’m surprised by those findings.

One must take the environmental cost of construction out of the equation (BEVs are dirtier to build than traditional ICE vehicles) to end up with that conclusion, though.

Still it is interesting to see them go down this road. The EU and British vehicle regulators must foresee a dramatic price decrease among EVs. Which does make some sense, since they are much cheaper to build due to their much simpler designs relative to ICE powered vehicles. Economy of scale is starting to apply to them. Although with the cost of copper and cobalt, the lower future prices may not hold if demand skyrockets too fast.

At least they are grandfathering in existing ICE vehicles past 2035.

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Well going forward.
Once EVS are the norm.
It becomes easier to develop clean technology when the CO2 emissions are centralized at power plants.

it also becomes easier to add some ultra-expensive ultra-draconian standards to the electric industry and them blame them for high prices.

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What is the efficacy though?

Do electric cars more effectively use that energy? Getting more MPG or MP ton of coal than ICE?

I learned in 6th grade science that

  • it costs energy to change energy from one form to another
    (from fossil-chemical to kinetic, to electric back to kinetic)
  • it costs energy to transport energy (like miles and miles over a power line instead of inches in your car engine.

That said . . . . eventually it will be cheaper (economy of scale) to develop clean technology for a power station than for millions of individual cars.

So EVS might eventually one day become cleaner.
but for now, naaah I believe that the way I believe Dr Fauci.

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They must anticipate Russia and China taking control of the ME and starving them out. :man_shrugging:

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If people only knew just how much destruction to environment in making that materials for those car batteries…they would gladly go back to ICE.

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That’s the conundrum. Cobalt and lithium mining is extremely dirty and very destructive to the local environment.

I will say that long term I’m hoping that Graphene batteries can be used. That would help alleviate some (but not all) of the environmental damage of producing large batteries.

I take a balanced approach. Let the free market decide. For the average car owner BEVs make sense and they are increasing in sales year over year because of that.

Trying to force it too fast will only cause resentment and long term problems. The infrastructure needs more development.

Had everyone standardized on nuclear fission four decades ago we wouldn’t be in this conundrum.

The answer has been there since Chicago Pile One first went critical.

The way I learned it in 6th grade science was:
"If you want to drive a car 20 miles you can do it two ways
1.) You can burn one gallon of gas converting it to kinetic energy, or

2.) You can burn more than 1 gallon of gas,

  • convert it to kinetic energy, power a generator
  • which converts it to electric energy,
  • then transmit it several miles,
  • then reconvert it to chemical energy in a battery
  • then convert it back into electric energy
  • and convert THAT electric energy to kinetic energy.

I took more accounting courses than physics courses,
but I can see the mathematical pattern.

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Probably a sound move for Europe. Honestly we all need to move to using mostly electric cars in urban areas and save ICE vehicles for the big boys- interstate trucking, long distance travel, airplanes, etc.

Precisely…lot of waste. But that’s the point isn’t it? To sell more energy.

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Electric cars can count on a variety of sources of energy- natural gas, coal, wind, solar, and can “fuel up” at non-peak hours to more effectively use the Grid. Smart move to not depend on Saudi Arabia, Russia etc.

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