I agree with STEM, disagree about general education - because of the failure of high schools.
I would say the idea of less than 1 person in 10,000 being successful without college is nonsense.
There are a lot of good jobs out there involving trades.
I had a good trade skill and made more money than any of my 3 college educated children.
One even has a Masters but makes less than me. All 3 did get jobs associated with their degrees.
[quote=“SneakySFDude, post:61, topic:237380, full:true”]
One does not need to learn anymore history or a language, etc., to be an engineer. Furthermore, most of those subjects are just as easily learned going on the internet for free than sitting in a classroom listening to a lecture.
Why is the O P blaming the system instead of the students? Thread after thread on this topic.
Plug in any institution & professor’s name any of you know & view the Captain Dumbass responses of many of today’s students. Why not blame K-12 tax payer funded schools for graduating students with such poor writing skills?
I’d link one of my professors, but don’t think the Forum allows the naming of private individuals. There were responses to this lady’s French courses like “Taking her classes won’t improve your GPA.”
Captain Dumbass! I didn’t know it was her job to contribute to your GPA!
I thought it was her job to oh, I don’t know, teach you some French! Go on any review site & see how poorly written some of these are & question not higher ed but the 12 grades preceding.
Why not instead blame parents for not encouraging their progeny instead to take a year off before making this expensive & time consuming commitment. Work a civilian job, or join the Armed Forces to become a more focused student, have more of a goal to go with the education.
How about school districts for eliminating trade programs? Counselors who rubber stamp parent plans for college prep for their students instead of pointing out that some of these students are nowhere near college prep level in such courses as mathematics?
Why not question students who blindly attend & don’t set aside time for Career Services workshops like resume writing, individual counseling, setting up mock interviews? Go into higher ed without a goal or some guidance & you’re going to come out of it with sheepskin & a mountain of student debt.
Higher ed is like just about anything. Get out of it what you put into it.
One hasn’t been taught any in high school.
Right on! 
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A second language is unnecessary? How about just to cross the border into Mexico or Canada?
Science on the internet with no feedback at all from an instructor? Now context? No testing to determine strengths & weaknesses?
As an example, I could learn chemistry through a library book. But without someone more knowledgeable, I’d never understand the mathematics behind it.
With no real set schedule, unlike in a school, it’s hard to avoid distractions like social media & gaming. Incidentally, some offer free online courses in limited disciplines, like this institution:
And the parents as you noted as well are also to blame for the current situation we are in today. I do agree with you. There are a number of factors that happened over the past few decades that’s to blame. Let me ask, what’s your view on cancelling student loans, which is also part of this thread.?
Not a supporter of canceling student loan debt. Someone borrows money, they’re expected to repay.
Those who worked while in school, those who repaid their loans & parents who saved for that expense shouldn’t get a slap in the face watching some leave with a free education.
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Amen to that! I paid for my 3 children’s education which took a good deal of sacrifice.
Why should some get by free. Plus it is a bad business to let students think they are entitled and should not have to replay loans they signed for.
Tuition loans would probably only be the beginning there.
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Who should pay for it?
Then you are owed a refund from Biden.
I wanna see some of these bleeps try and pull the same stunt with a homebuying loan.
And I’m not talking about those unexpected situations about which a lender should be notified so they can try to work with the buyer & avoid foreclosure, but from the beginning not pay even one dime.
They’d be in those forclosure proceedings before too long.
Captain Flaming Dumbass is what many are perfectly content to accept at the K-12 level. When that’s the accepted mindset, Captain Flaming Dumbass is going to be the quality of college students.
Many GROWN MEN AND WOMEN, for instance, think not only is it OK for students to not learn cursive, but that it shouldn’t be taught.
Hey great! Don’t come whining to me when teen brat can’t read a Christmas Card is Baby Boomer aunt sent because she still writes as adults were expected to from their earlier years.
I’ve dealt with parents who thought learning a second language was bs, only to have adult offspring training outside the U S & wishing they had that second language, or working for a company with sites in Mexico & unable to communicate without an interpreter there,
When parents don’t value learning, the kids won’t either. Maybe we should be doing like Germany & assigning college prep or vocational learning starting in 4th grade.
Yeah they will never allow that with mortgage loans.
They shouldn’t allow it with student loans either. Same thing. They borrowed money and promised to pay it back.
That’ll never happen.
[quote=“gooddad409, post:76, topic:237380, full:true”]
True. He knows your vote cannot be bought.
Or they simply forgot most of what they did learn, which is the case for the overwhelming majority of people. The ability to retain the information one learns in is quite minimal. The overwhelming majority of people forget around 90% of what they learn in a class shortly after they are done with the class. That is one of the main reasons why the system is so ineffective.
It takes a long time and a tremendous amount of effort to master a new language. That’s not a practical reality for every student. What percent of jobs requires someone to speak another language and what languages would that be?
My dad was right.
It does take exposure to really learn another language.
But how are preliminary exposures in school hurting students?
Dad was in and out of Mexico as an engineer. Heck, where I work has offices in Mexico City.
Am acquainted with an engineer whose dad pulled him out of French class, saying as some conservatives are saying that he really would go nowhere learning that, take Spanish.
Well, that engineer wound up working for a European headquartered company and training…in France. Still seemed pissed off about being pulled out of the class.
I would say the common middle/high school requirement of two years of a foreign language minimum—usually with a choice of Spanish or French—is perfectly reasonable.
