Addressing the elephant in the womb

Then we are in agreement. That pure natural reductionism is an incomplete viewpoint into our ethics, and that alone cannot be the basis for our moral constructs regarding whether or not abortion is just.

It’s enough for some people.

Ok. But was the state telling private insurance companies what they COULD NOT cover? (Assuming legal procedures like abortion)

That is what Meri and I were discussing.

No, they mandated what coverages each level must include to be legal to sell the policies in each state.

If you want a policy that coves abortion buy one but don’t try to force the rest of us to subsidize it.

Liberalism influence politics, but it also applies to behavior, morals, religion, economics, lifestyle and every other aspect of human existence.

Your explanation was pure lib-speak, and had nothing to do with politics.

No I’m not. Except maybe in some warped lib view of things.

Again, I don’t share that filter.

You are making it arbitrary. To me, it’s absolute. Not arbitrary.

Speak for yourself.

Both WR and I struggle to think like you.

Your part of the discussion requires warped thinking.

Precisely.

The value of a human life is determined by the person living it.

Threaten me or mine over say what’s in my wallet and you have just set the value of your life.

Break into my house hoping to steal enough stuff to pay for your next high? You just set the value of your own life.

Use your car in a road rage episode to threaten my life because I didn’t get out of your way fast enough for you to make a right hand turn out of the left lane? That’s the value you set for your own life.

Some folks here seem to be utterly unable to distinguish between “innocent life” and self defense.

No. It has nothing to do with liberal policies.

I think you are just struggling to understand. Have you ever studied formal philosophy?

But it’s not absolute.

How much humans value other human life is completely arbitrary and conditional.

There is thousands and thousands of years of history that demonstrate that.

That is true of ALL humans…even you.

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Because you’re injecting stuff into instead slowly reading it. Its simply a discussion of where our values come from. I’m simply saying that values dont come from arbitrary facts of genetics - its why you are ok with killing terrorisrs, even though they are human. As WR has pointed out, values also come from how each one of us values certain behaviors. Such behaviors and concepts (“innocence”) extend the arbitrary fact of “being human”. Stop trying to be so argumentative and just try to consider it. Not everything in this world is a big lib vs. con war.

Explain how choosing the “fact of having human genetics” isn’t an arbitrary basis of determining relative value of a human life. Do you think terrorists have a relative value of life? Or should we not kill them because “they are humans”.

In fact, basing your morality of when to kill others based solely on genetics has been a primary component of genocide through history.

Let’s say it’s night time. What steps are you going to take to determine the motive of the person with unauthorized entry to your home before you shoot them?

No one here has that difficulty.

The discussion is taking place at an entirely different level than that.

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No. You just set the value of their lives - or more specifically, you value your life over theirs and thus are willing to end theirs. And no one is having difficulty distinguishing between self defense and innocence. I think its more you and guvnah have likely never discussed ethics and existentialism in a formal way outside of politics and religion, so you are misinterpreting the motive/reasoning behind the current discussion.

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It’s not in the context of philosophy, though. Not what you’re selling.

It’s in the context of relativistic libberish.

You are (again) completely missing the point. Its very simple: our ethical worldviews are not based solely on natural reductionism of whether or not a being is human. That is an incomplete ethical position. It is also based on how we value actions, how those actions affect us, and how we determine whether or not we are just enough to prevent further action from the other. Its why you are ok with killing terrorists.