1 Timothy 2:12: Discuss

The verse where Paul tells women to shut up in church.

Let’s discuss

The words of this one apostle are the justification for a lot of denominations not letting women be priests or have any authority in church.

And presumably this extrapolates to outside the church where there can’t be women referees in sporting events because that puts them in authority over males, etc.

And at home where male children can chastise their moms for being stupid because hey, it’s in the Bible…

There must be hundreds of thousands of women who accept their place based on this scripture. Any of them here care to share their thoughts on that verse?

Wikipedia has devoted a whole page to it, trying to explain (it seems to me) that it doesn’t mean what lots of men then and now want it to mean - that women should have no authority…

In Galatians 3:28, Paul writes:

“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female: for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

It is also interesting to research the custom of the times regarding women and worship in Jewish, Greek, and Roman society. (The rules were the same.) Were they not, that place of worship would have been classified (by people of the time) as a place of prostitution.

The other part about women being silent in church had to do with women asking questions about what was going on. Paul thought the place for such questions were best asked at home, not in the midst of the ceremony.

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You can’t isolated a scripture and get the full intent or reasoning behind it.

In a different thread, a guy (I’m not sure if I’m allowed to name him, as this isn’t a “calling out” thread) did just that.

He cited this verse as why he didn’t think women should be priests or ministers or whatever, and why he’d pay no attention to Trump’s spiritual adviser, who is a woman.

So I guess the question is…any idea how many Christians feel as you do - that you can’t just use this one scripture… and how many Christian denominations use this one verse /scripture to prevent women from holding any position of authority in the Church? (Southern Baptists and Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, for example)

I grew up in the United Methodist Church. The UMC and most mainline Protestant denominations have no problems with women in the pulpit.

For the record, as a Fundamental Baptist I don’t believe women have the Biblical authority to be Pastors or hold other certain positions in church. There are other scriptures that support my belief other than the one given in this op.

But, like many other verses, this one has been misused by men to assert that women are likewise prohibited from any type of authority at all over men, or worse, that they should be kept pregnant, barefoot and in the kithchen. There is nothing prohibiting women from other types of authority over men. They can absolutely be judges or bosses at work, the scriptures are talking about spiritual leadership. God does give the leadership of the church and the home to men, but he also commands husbands to love their wives. If a husband loves his wife, then he will respect his wife and seek his wife’s advice and counsel. A marriage is two equal partners, not dominant and subservient. The other thing often overlooked is that while God gives men the authority in the home and church, he also gives them the responsibility and accountability.

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Ah, I getcha.

The other guy gave me the impression that he thought that women should have no authority at all.

There are two relevant verses on this issue. One in 1 Cor. 7:34-35 where the received text says "Let your women… " not, "Let women… " and should be understood as Paul’s ruling concerning a problem of disorderly conduct he was requested advice on. See 1 Cor. 7:1 " Now, concerning the things of which * you wrote to me*. "

Paul’s advice is applicable to churches with the same problem, not to churches that are being conducted in an orderly fashion. Here the word translated “to be silent” is sigaO and does mean silence.

1Timothy is a general ruling, but the word translated as “be silent” is hesuchia, means ruliness, orderliness, not silence
Women can speak if they do so in an orderly respectful way, which Corinthian women were not doing.

Here you go again.
Cite a scripture that says the Corinthian women were not behaving in church.

I’ve asked you for this about 4 times. Nothing yet.

I’m sure I’m “the other guy” and I said no such thing. You’re making it up.
I have never read a post of yours that was accurate.

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  1. Yes, you are the other guy. Your post in the thread about Trump’s spiritual advisor, in which you dismissed her because she was a woman, gave me the impression that you thought women should have no authority at all.

Gave me the impression is the appropriate phrase here, or more accurately the word impression.

No you didn’t come right out and say “women should have no authority at all” but what you did say, gave me the impression that that’s what you meant.

Why would I make up the impression that you gave me?

And I asked you about it in that thread and you refused to answer, so that merely solidified my impression.

  1. That’s a very general statement. Cite any post of mine that contains inaccuracies, please. I’m ready to be corrected if I have misinterpreted facts, etc.

This is the only remark I have ever made about 1 Timothy 2:12:

1 Timothy 2:12 echoes the same prohibition against women speaking in worship.

If I were to cite all of your inaccuracies, it would take me years to track them all down and post them.
The one I just dealt with was a complete fabrication on your part.
“Impression” my butt.

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Referring to 1 and 3, this is just a sample of your posts in the thread about Trump’s wackadoodle religious adviser.

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Nov '19

She’s not a fundamentalist, she’s a fraud in danger of hell fire.

1 Corinthians 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

I don’t think your reading that text in context. The women in that particular church had been told by their husbands and fathers and elders to keep quiet in church because they were rudely interrupting and disrupting proceedings. Hence, Paul says, " It has not been permitted to YOUR women to speak. It was not a blanket commandment for all women in all churches. Where a women is pemitted by her leadership to speak up in meetings, that’s OK.

That’s better.
Lol

They were given permission to talk. What more do you want?

  1. You can’t recite my inaccuracies because there are none.

  2. You “dealt” with nothing . You don’t understand that the takeaways from what people say aren’t always what people think they say, and you refuse to extrapolate that when I tell you my impression of your many posts in that thread is that you were against women in authority.

I can’t explain it any simpler than I did.

Furthermore, I don’t really understand why you’re so upset that I start a thread about Timothy 2:12.

You may not think that women should not have authority over men, but I guarantee you that there are folks who do.

https://www.foxnews.com/story/female-referee-removed-from-officiating-boys-basketball-game-by-religious-school

You can’t lie any more flagrantly than you did.

The women in that particular church had been told by their husbands and fathers and elders to keep quiet in church because they were rudely interrupting and disrupting proceedings.

This is false. Cite a scripture confirming this. You can’t. There is none.

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The only remark I made about 1 Timothy 2:12 was :
1 Timothy 2:12 echoes the same prohibition against women speaking in worship.

Where are the rest of the things you falsely claim I said about a woman’s authority in 1 Timothy?

Proverbs 18:22 “He who finds a wife finds a good thing and obtains favor from the LORD.”

This right here.

Few things in this world are more divine than a wife’s earnest counsel.

What in the world was the lie?

What do you think I was trying to accomplish?

[quote]This is false. Cite a scripture confirming this. You can’t. There is none.
[/quote]

That’s not something I said. That’s from the original thread in the Trump’s religious’ adviser thread.

IF anyone here is interested, which I doubt, they can read the thread. You specified Timothy 2:12 once, then you continued on about it a couple of times - it being women not being allowed to speak in church.

Oh…and again, when did I falsely claim you said anything? Jesus, all I said was you gave me the impression that’s what you thought. Your whole demeanor, the interpretation of your words.

Jesus, do you not know what the word “impression” means? How about “extrapoloation”?

Again, why does my having started this thread make you so upset?

I didn’t mention your name and as a matter of fact it’s got nothing to do with you except the impression you gave me that you thought that women should have no authority over men. You are unimportant in this thread…until you decided to create a fuss about it for reasons I still don’t understand.

Is that what upsets you? I’m sorry I got the wrong impression. I had no idea it was a sensitive subject!

Now…the thread had no interest before you chimed in… so I guess I can thank you for extending it for five or six posts…