The 2nd doesn’t lay out which sort of ammo we have the right to fire and when it was written they had no idea what soft of arms and ammo would be available centuries later.
Who said anything about you committing a crime?
The 2nd doesn’t lay out which sort of ammo we have the right to fire and when it was written they had no idea what soft of arms and ammo would be available centuries later.
Who said anything about you committing a crime?
fallenturtle:
A reasonable reading of what I wrote would be that if the gun is for self defense or hunting its fine even if the military also uses it.
There’s nothing “reasonable” about that.
What’s unreasonable about that reading? Are you just looking for a reason to argue?
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
“It is a principle that the right to a thing gives a right to the means without which it could not be used, that is to say, that the means follow their end.” --Thomas Jefferson
That’s not in the 2nd though… and what about when there are multiple types of ammo available? In the above mentioned RPG example, if there are both mini-nuke and conventional warheads available for the RPG, is there a blanket right to all kinds or can the government limit it to a single ammo type?
Sure. Why should it be illegal to possess something?
Possession has the potential of use and its my opinion that certain weapons and ammo should be reserved for trained professionals and the battlefield.
So prior restraint based on your fee fees.
We’re both US citizens, why should your fee fees trump mine?
The 2nd Amendment does. What crime have I committed that you should prohibit me?
The 2nd doesn’t lay out which sort of ammo we have the right to fire and when it was written they had no idea what soft of arms and ammo would be available centuries later.
Who said anything about you committing a crime?
Armor piercing bullets are illegal. The Constitution couldn’t possibly list the myriad hundreds of different ammunitions available.
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
“It is a principle that the right to a thing gives a right to the means without which it could not be used, that is to say, that the means follow their end.” --Thomas Jefferson
That’s not in the 2nd though… and what about when there are multiple types of ammo available? In the above mentioned RPG example, if there are both mini-nuke and conventional warheads available for the RPG, is there a blanket right to all kinds or can the government limit it to a single ammo type?
Sure. Why should it be illegal to possess something?
Possession has the potential of use and its my opinion that certain weapons and ammo should be reserved for trained professionals and the battlefield.
So prior restraint based on your fee fees.
We’re both US citizens, why should your fee fees trump mine?
The 2nd Amendment does. What crime have I committed that you should prohibit me?
The 2nd doesn’t lay out which sort of ammo we have the right to fire and when it was written they had no idea what soft of arms and ammo would be available centuries later.
Who said anything about you committing a crime?
Armor piercing bullets are illegal. The Constitution couldn’t possibly list the myriad hundreds of different ammunitions available.
Do you believe that armor piercing bullets being illegal violates the 2nd amendment?
FloridaYankee:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
“It is a principle that the right to a thing gives a right to the means without which it could not be used, that is to say, that the means follow their end.” --Thomas Jefferson
That’s not in the 2nd though… and what about when there are multiple types of ammo available? In the above mentioned RPG example, if there are both mini-nuke and conventional warheads available for the RPG, is there a blanket right to all kinds or can the government limit it to a single ammo type?
Sure. Why should it be illegal to possess something?
Possession has the potential of use and its my opinion that certain weapons and ammo should be reserved for trained professionals and the battlefield.
So prior restraint based on your fee fees.
We’re both US citizens, why should your fee fees trump mine?
The 2nd Amendment does. What crime have I committed that you should prohibit me?
The 2nd doesn’t lay out which sort of ammo we have the right to fire and when it was written they had no idea what soft of arms and ammo would be available centuries later.
Who said anything about you committing a crime?
Armor piercing bullets are illegal. The Constitution couldn’t possibly list the myriad hundreds of different ammunitions available.
Do you believe that armor piercing bullets being illegal violates the 2nd amendment?
Nope.
When you start being rational, I will be glad to debate you without the barbs.
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
Sure it does. Ammo is an integral part of bearing an arm.
When you start being rational, I will be glad to debate you without the barbs.
I highly doubt you will considering I’ve been rational the whole time.
amadeus:
I’ve never really heard a reasonable defense of the second amendment. As far as I can tell, some losers got an amendment and they couldn’t agree about what it actually meant.
That may be the most pathetic and asinine post you have ever made.
Still no universal agreement.
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
“It is a principle that the right to a thing gives a right to the means without which it could not be used, that is to say, that the means follow their end.” --Thomas Jefferson
That’s not in the 2nd though… and what about when there are multiple types of ammo available? In the above mentioned RPG example, if there are both mini-nuke and conventional warheads available for the RPG, is there a blanket right to all kinds or can the government limit it to a single ammo type?
Why don’t you stick to reality. First off, RPGs are not arms (a fact that you have been informed of several times by several people) and secondly, no such thing as explosive firearm ammunition is available to anyone, not even the military.
amadeus:
The creator of what?
Feel free to use whatever you like, nature, a creator, Darwin or just plain biology. It is the nature of most organisms to defend themselves from other organisms.
The Sandy Hook victims were not threatening the shooter.
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
“It is a principle that the right to a thing gives a right to the means without which it could not be used, that is to say, that the means follow their end.” --Thomas Jefferson
That’s not in the 2nd though… and what about when there are multiple types of ammo available? In the above mentioned RPG example, if there are both mini-nuke and conventional warheads available for the RPG, is there a blanket right to all kinds or can the government limit it to a single ammo type?
Sure. Why should it be illegal to possess something?
Possession has the potential of use and its my opinion that certain weapons and ammo should be reserved for trained professionals and the battlefield.
You could incite sedition with your computer … they should take it away from you.
fallenturtle:
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
Sure it does. Ammo is an integral part of bearing an arm.
Does that include all ammo or just a minimum of one type of ammo per format of arm? If I have a choice for my RPG of a conventional warhead or a mini-nuke can the government restrict me to just the conventional one?
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
“It is a principle that the right to a thing gives a right to the means without which it could not be used, that is to say, that the means follow their end.” --Thomas Jefferson
That’s not in the 2nd though… and what about when there are multiple types of ammo available? In the above mentioned RPG example, if there are both mini-nuke and conventional warheads available for the RPG, is there a blanket right to all kinds or can the government limit it to a single ammo type?
Why don’t you stick to reality.
For the same reason we don’t consider the 2nd amendment to only apply to the types of firearms that were available when it was written. Weapon’s technology is not stagnant and therefore if we are going to test the limits of the 2nd amendment it should be tested with reasonable hypotheticals.
First off, RPGs are not arms (a fact that you have been informed of several times by several people)
It meets the definition. Black’s Law Dictionary defines the word arms as “anything that a man wears for his defense, or takes in his hands as a weapon.” An RPG is taken into the hands as a weapon.
no such thing as explosive firearm ammunition is available to anyone, not even the military
Not yet… but you can’t say it won’t be in the future where, hopefully, our Constitution will still be in effect.
zantax:
amadeus:
The creator of what?
Feel free to use whatever you like, nature, a creator, Darwin or just plain biology. It is the nature of most organisms to defend themselves from other organisms.
The Sandy Hook victims were not threatening the shooter.
We were discussing the right to self defense. Most people wouldn’t categorize shooting down unarmed children as self defense.
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
WuWei:
fallenturtle:
The 2nd doesn’t mention ammo.
“It is a principle that the right to a thing gives a right to the means without which it could not be used, that is to say, that the means follow their end.” --Thomas Jefferson
That’s not in the 2nd though… and what about when there are multiple types of ammo available? In the above mentioned RPG example, if there are both mini-nuke and conventional warheads available for the RPG, is there a blanket right to all kinds or can the government limit it to a single ammo type?
Sure. Why should it be illegal to possess something?
Possession has the potential of use and its my opinion that certain weapons and ammo should be reserved for trained professionals and the battlefield.
You could incite sedition with your computer … they should take it away from you.
Child porn too, just a click or two away, could happen any time. Wait, just ban the entire internet, that will fix it and the internet isn’t in the constitution.
Several drug laws are based on possession. So is copyright law. So is child pornography.
Possession with the intent to distribute. Legal garbage. How do you define intent without action?
Possession with intent to distribute is two violations, The drug itself is illegal to possess, therefore, what you intended to do with it is not pertinent. Guns, on the other hand, are not only legal to posses, the possession of them is Constitutionally protected right. It is beyond silly to compare gun possession with drug possession on any level.
And with child pornography, the crime has been committed before anyone possessed it. Perhaps you shouldn’t try to be so deep.
NJBob:
WuWei:
NJBob:
WuWei:
NJBob:
A 1939 decision. What was considered “ordinary military equipment” at that time? An ‘03 Springfield and a 1911 Colt?
BAR
M1921 ThompsonNeither of which was ordinary.
Additional training was required to use either a BAR or a Thomson. They were not issued to all soldiers in 1939.
They were issued by the millions.
And the “at the time” argument is 2nd only flame throwers in stupidity.
Millions?
Not even close.
Yep. Over 2 million built between the two.
Upon a little more research, 563,000 Thompson 1928A1s (WWII varient) were built and 352,000 BARs total were built.
Seems I was right. Well under 1 million.
My point was that it wasn’t standard issue for ordinary soldiers and thus not an ordinary weapon.
But I can also see the logic of the counter argument.
A squad would usually have a single BAR and the squad leader would possibly have a Thompson. The other ten or so soldiers would have Springfield or Garand depending on the year.
Again, ordinary does not mean everyone was issued the weapon, ordinary means it is a standard weapon in the arsenal of arms.
The 2nd doesn’t lay out which sort of ammo we have the right to fire and when it was written they had no idea what soft of arms and ammo would be available centuries later.
Just curious, but what type of ammunition has you so worked up? What ammo do you wish to be prohibited?
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