Yes, Bernie Sanders! There is income inequality. So, freaken what?

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

@Samm

As I said, the shallow end of the pool is that way. =>

Those are your words not mine… not my problem your argument is incoherent

I have yet to see anyone state what the difference between government ran insurance vs government ran schools/public safety… either they are both socialist or neither of them are.

Your persistent lack of understanding does not make my arguments incoherent. And the fact that others here have had no problem at all following my arguments pretty much proves the problem is yours, not mine.

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

Your persistent lack of understanding does not make my arguments incoherent. And the fact that others here have had no problem at all following my arguments pretty much proves the problem is yours, not mine.

Others? Just @peek-a-boo and he was just supporting your incoherent post. His support is not verification of a sound argument

Again

I have yet to see anyone state what the difference between government ran insurance vs government ran schools/public safety… either they are both socialist or neither of them are.

Public good? They both are
Government controlled? They both are
Production of a product? They both do
Government funded? They both are

What’s left?

[peek-a-boo]

Just like they did in Venezuela.

[peek-a-boo]

@PurpnGold

I have yet to see anyone state what the difference between government ran insurance vs government ran schools/public safety… either they are both socialist or neither of them are.

I’ve repeatedly addressed this. You obviously disagree with my take. Just because you disagree doesn’t mean that I’m wrong in my assessment and you are right in yours. It simply means we disagree.

So basically we agree to disagree. But I’m kind of guessing you won’t have any of that.

Oh well.

Makes no difference to me, as I’ve already moved on.

[fallenturtle]

Yes. Though, despite initially being democratically elected, Chavez’s rule was authoritarian and therefore isn’t really democratic socialism.

[PurpnGold]

@peek-a-boo

Just because you disagree doesn’t mean that I’m wrong in my assessment and you are right in yours. It simply means we disagree.

So basically we agree to disagree. But I’m kind of guessing you won’t have any of that.

Not quite. That’s like saying we can agree to disagree on whether 2 + 2 = 4.

There is a very specific definition of socialism.

Government control of the means of production.

Does the government control the public school system? Yes

Does the public school system offer a product? Yes

Do tax payers fund the government, through taxes, to specifically pay for a public school? Yes

How is the public school system, by definition, not socialist?

[mobulis]

@peek-a-boo

Socialism is defined as the Federal Government taking over ownership or control of the means of production.

Local Government services provided by taxpayer funding is not socialism by any definition.

Please point out the word FEDERAL, thank you.

Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

[mobulis]

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@peek-a-boo

What exactly is your point? I’ve made mine very succinctly but you seem to be intent on playing silly games. State your point or I’m moving on.

My point is… public schools are government funded. The government is funded through TAXES from THE PEOPLE.

Public schools provide a SERVICE that produces Schools, pays administrators and deliver curriculum. That service is paid by state and federal taxes.

How is that not socialism?

I thought I made that perfectly clear … socialism is from the top down, not from the bottom up.

Where does it say that?

Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property

b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

[fallenturtle]

Some forms of socialism:
Top down socialism: Authoritarian socialism - Wikipedia
Bottom up socialism: Democratic socialism - Wikipedia
The government owns the means of production socialism: State socialism - Wikipedia
The government doesn’t own the means of production socialism: Libertarian socialism - Wikipedia
Everyone believes in Jesus socialism: Christian socialism - Wikipedia

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

What’s left?

You are.

[Samm]

@mobulis

Where does it say that?

What do you think “the government” and “the state” refer to?

[Samm]

Bottom up does not produce socialism without the “up” taking on the role. Voting for socialist candidates like Bernie or OAC is not the bottom deciding that socialism should prevail. That action can only be implemented from the top.

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

Bottom up does not produce socialism without the “up” taking on the role. Voting for socialist candidates like Bernie or OAC is not the bottom deciding that socialism should prevail. That action can only be implemented from the top.

Cool.

Then the public school system is socialist.

[Samm]

No it is not. We have been over this before. The public school system was not implemented on the demand of the people.

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

No it is not. We have been over this before. The public school system was not implemented on the demand of the people.

So it was forced on the people by the government?

[mobulis]

@Samm

@mobulis

Where does it say that?

What do you think “the government” and “the state” refer to?

A govt which can be democratically elected by the people to enact socialism. Thus bottom up.

[mobulis]

@Samm

Bottom up does not produce socialism without the “up” taking on the role. Voting for socialist candidates like Bernie or OAC is not the bottom deciding that socialism should prevail. That action can only be implemented from the top.

Yes it is.

[JayJay]

@peek-a-boo

No you are wrong.

Let’s take the USPS. That is run by the government, but there is lots of competition. As with anything run by the government, the USPS is comparatively inefficient. But that isn’t an example of Socialism.

If on the other hand the Federal government took over that industry and banned UPS and FedEx, that would be an example of Socialism.

So back to Medicare. It is run by the government, and as such it is comparatively inefficient. There are Medicare advantage alternatives and private supplemental insurance. Thus Medicare is not an example of socialism. However, the proposed single payer initiatives would be a wholesale takeover of the healthcare insurance industry, while outlawing private insurance alternatives. That would be a blatant example of socialism.

Neither the USPS nor Medicare is inefficient.

The USPS is saddled with a financial burden no comparative business is saddled with, otherwise, even with the decline in first class mail, it would be eking out a small profit every year.

And the USPS mails letters, parcels and packages ALL OVER THE COUNTRY…to places way out in the hinterlands that private companies would ignore or charge ridiculous prices if left to themselves.

As for Medicare, it routinely provides better coverage at lower costs than private insurers.

Medicare May be a Better Option Than Employer Health Insurance

[fallenturtle]

@Samm

Bottom up does not produce socialism without the “up” taking on the role. Voting for socialist candidates like Bernie or OAC is not the bottom deciding that socialism should prevail. That action can only be implemented from the top.

So you consider our current way of making laws and policy here in the US, top down?

[WildRose]

It isn’t socialism because it’s not an industry that the gov’t has taken control of “the means of production”.