Without western Europeans, would slavery still exist throughout the world?

Samm · 2020-06-25T00:38:55.379Z

Nemesis:

thinkingman:

Nemesis:

Bill.in.PA:

The narrative from the many leftists is that slavery is basically a racist European invention, but history shows the opposite.

Which “leftists” have said this?

Who has denied slavery did not exist before the Transatlantic African slave trade?

In the history of humankind there has never been organized slavery on such a wide and industrial scale as what happened between the 16th and 19th centuries.

“industry” didn’t exist before those centuries by and large

slavery has been part of human history for thousands of years, across regions, nations, cultures and religions.

No one is denying that but the OPs opening comment is that “leftists” are precisely denying that. I am just asking for proof that many “leftists” are saying that or is it as I suspect just speculation on the part of the OP.

Slavery is one of the most evil and reprehensible aspects of humanity but no one can deny that the magnitude of the transatlantic slave trade was like nothing seen before and the United States in great part was built both physically and culturally on the back of that trade.

You could try addressing the question posed in the Tread Title and OP rather than nit pick about whether or not leftists denied the preexistence of slavery.

Axxowiz · 2020-06-25T00:53:46.842Z

What about the slave trade today coming out of Libya and in other countries in Africa and parts of Asia. You would think trying to combat and active slave trade would be more important than a statue of someone that hasn’t been alive for 130+ years. Imagine if that ire that is being directed at those old statues was directed at this instead what good might come from it.

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CanadianJudo · 2020-06-25T01:17:17.032Z

American have very little grasp of the world outside of their borders.

thinkingman · 2020-06-25T02:38:09.689Z

CanadianJudo:

American have very little grasp of the world outside of their borders.

thats how it should be. because the rest of bar scene from star wars world sucks

CanadianJudo · 2020-06-25T03:01:51.285Z

Samm:

SixFoot:

Nobody cares about modern day slavery. They only care about 150 year old slavery.

They also don’t care about the 94-96% of African sourced slaves sent to the Americas who never came to the United States.

That is because America is the only place were breeding slaves was the normal, in rest of the trade the average life span of a slave was a decade, working the sugar fields was a death sentence.

CanadianJudo · 2020-06-25T03:05:40.557Z

Axxowiz:

What about the slave trade today coming out of Libya and in other countries in Africa and parts of Asia. You would think trying to combat and active slave trade would be more important than a statue of someone that hasn’t been alive for 130+ years. Imagine if that ire that is being directed at those old statues was directed at this instead what good might come from it.

Qater host to the 2022 world cup (let play soccer in the middle of a desert) built all those facilities with slave labor over 4,000 have died.

CanadianJudo · 2020-06-25T03:07:52.632Z

Bill.in.PA:

A common misconception is that slavery is basically a racist European invention, but history shows the opposite.

The slavery existed in virtually every corner of the world before the coming of European explorers. The Aztecs had slaves before the coming of the Spanish, and slavery was common throughout North America long before Jamestown. Slavery was common throughout Africa, India, China, Polynesia, the Middle East, and most of Europe.

The European enlightenment in the 1700s started the modern campaign to end slavery. The US and the British Empire banned slave trade in the early 1800s. Slavery was banned most of the British Empire in 1833, and by that time slavery was banned in the northern half of the US.

By the end early twentieth century, modern western ideas of equality and justice combined with the spread of the industrial revolution had ended slavery throughout most of the world. The areas where slavery existed were those farthest from western influence. Slavery existed in the Ottoman Empire until it was replaced by modern Turkey after World War I. Ethiopia finally banned slavery in 1942. Saudi Arabia officially ended slavery in 1962, and Mauritania officially ended slavery in 2007.

Is there any reason to believe that slavery would have ended without the influence of western Europeans?

Was the abolition of slavery an example of Western cultural imperialism?

Its not like Western Europe wanted to end slavery, it was more a matter they couldn’t deal with the non stop slave revolts

Axxowiz · 2020-06-25T03:09:05.415Z

Yep I remember that but one almost had to dig for the info as it seemed little of it was covered just like the 1 million minorities locked up in concentration camps in China very little coverage or outrage.

CanadianJudo · 2020-06-25T03:13:21.956Z

Axxowiz:

Yep I remember that but one almost had to dig for the info as it seemed little of it was covered just like the 1 million minorities locked up in concentration camps in China very little coverage or outrage.

one of the biggest economic industries keeping North Korea alive is exporting slave labor to China and Russia

you will find these “Cities” in Rural China/Russia mining, forestry, etc they are guarded by North Korean army officials 150,000-200,000 people are sent there without consent to work for the Russian/Chinese government.

AngraMainyu · 2020-06-25T03:19:49.973Z

Bill.in.PA:

A common misconception is that slavery is basically a racist European invention, but history shows the opposite.

The slavery existed in virtually every corner of the world before the coming of European explorers. The Aztecs had slaves before the coming of the Spanish, and slavery was common throughout North America long before Jamestown. Slavery was common throughout Africa, India, China, Polynesia, the Middle East, and most of Europe.

The European enlightenment in the 1700s started the modern campaign to end slavery. The US and the British Empire banned slave trade in the early 1800s. Slavery was banned most of the British Empire in 1833, and by that time slavery was banned in the northern half of the US.

By the end early twentieth century, modern western ideas of equality and justice combined with the spread of the industrial revolution had ended slavery throughout most of the world. The areas where slavery existed were those farthest from western influence. Slavery existed in the Ottoman Empire until it was replaced by modern Turkey after World War I. Ethiopia finally banned slavery in 1942. Saudi Arabia officially ended slavery in 1962, and Mauritania officially ended slavery in 2007.

Is there any reason to believe that slavery would have ended without the influence of western Europeans?

Was the abolition of slavery an example of Western cultural imperialism?

I don’t think it is a common misconception that it is a racist European invention. European slavery was unprecedented due to its scale and international colonization.

AngraMainyu · 2020-06-25T03:21:22.133Z

Samm:

SixFoot:

Nobody cares about modern day slavery. They only care about 150 year old slavery.

They also don’t care about the 94-96% of African sourced slaves sent to the Americas who never came to the United States.

Well, that’s not true: Haiti.

AngraMainyu · 2020-06-25T03:23:44.879Z

thinkingman:

Nemesis:

Bill.in.PA:

The narrative from the many leftists is that slavery is basically a racist European invention, but history shows the opposite.

Which “leftists” have said this?

Who has denied slavery did not exist before the Transatlantic African slave trade?

In the history of humankind there has never been organized slavery on such a wide and industrial scale as what happened between the 16th and 19th centuries.

“industry” didn’t exist before those centuries by and large

slavery has been part of human history for thousands of years, across regions, nations, cultures and religions.

Not to nitpick, but industry has existed since the Mesopotamian city states. Nonetheless, the transatlantic slave trade is unique and a marker for European conquest of the world.

AngraMainyu · 2020-06-25T03:30:43.740Z

Bill.in.PA:

Emphasizing the European history of slavery while ignoring what went on in the rest of world is misleading. So is ignoring the fact that western Europeans lead the fight against slavery worldwide.

A related issue is the claims that any problems in the world are a result of European exploitation. Exploitation certainly occurred but so did unprecedented worldwide development.

In 1500 virtually everyone lived in extreme poverty by today’s standards. The worldwide trade network and industrial economy pioneered by Europeans has benefited the whole world. For example, the current average life expectancy is 71 years, which is roughly double the value for pre-industrial societies even though the world population has grown by roughly a factor of 10.

Don’t think that’s what is occurring. The slave trade in Italy of slavic is technically “European history of slavery”, but it pales in comparison to the scale of colonization and enslavement from 1500 to 1945.

Also, telling people how much they have “benefited” from that evil is hardly an argument to use to win people (those were colonized or whose ancestors were slaves) over to your side.

Samm · 2020-06-25T07:12:12.805Z

CanadianJudo:

Samm:

SixFoot:

Nobody cares about modern day slavery. They only care about 150 year old slavery.

They also don’t care about the 94-96% of African sourced slaves sent to the Americas who never came to the United States.

That is because America is the only place were breeding slaves was the normal, in rest of the trade the average life span of a slave was a decade, working the sugar fields was a death sentence.

So you are saying that the 4-6% of slaves sent to the US were fortunate compared to the vast majority who were worked to death. Interesting perspective.

Samm · 2020-06-25T07:15:36.767Z

AngraMainyu:

Samm:

SixFoot:

Nobody cares about modern day slavery. They only care about 150 year old slavery.

They also don’t care about the 94-96% of African sourced slaves sent to the Americas who never came to the United States.

Well, that’s not true: Haiti.

It true. And Haiti has very little to do with it. The fact is MOST slaves were destined for the Caribbean and South America.

thinkingman · 2020-06-25T11:55:06.583Z

AngraMainyu:

thinkingman:

Nemesis:

Bill.in.PA:

The narrative from the many leftists is that slavery is basically a racist European invention, but history shows the opposite.

Which “leftists” have said this?

Who has denied slavery did not exist before the Transatlantic African slave trade?

In the history of humankind there has never been organized slavery on such a wide and industrial scale as what happened between the 16th and 19th centuries.

“industry” didn’t exist before those centuries by and large

slavery has been part of human history for thousands of years, across regions, nations, cultures and religions.

Not to nitpick, but industry has existed since the Mesopotamian city states. Nonetheless, the transatlantic slave trade is unique and a marker for European conquest of the world.

yet there was an “industrial revolution” during slavery in US. “by and large” was the key phrase there.

all “transatlantic trade” was unique because people were now trading with the “new world”

TheRedComet · 2020-06-25T12:09:14.170Z

I wouldn’t say fortunate.

You got 30-40 years of abuse instead of 5 depending on the slave owner and overseers’ temperament. All slave owners were horrid people (they were slavers after all) but some were less abusive than others.

As a slave being brought to the new world, you wanted to end up on the continent itself. Either North America, Latin America, or Portuguese America, where sugar wasn’t the central crop.

Where you didn’t want to end up was the Caribbean, specifically the sugar colonies like Jamaica or Saint Domingue.

Sugar was so valuable that any sense of “morality” (if such a thing existed among slavers) went flying out the window and they worked you to death. Literally. Either that or Yellow Fever killed you off in one or two years.

But I wouldn’t call them fortunate. I’d say less awful.

Bill.in.PA · 2020-06-26T17:18:20.584Z

It was unprecedented in that western Europeans eventually ended government-supported slavery world wide.

Justification for slavery certainly took on a huge racist component in the US. From what I see that was a result of the cognitive dissonance between the revolutionary idea that “all men are created equal” and a slave-dependent economy in the South. The only way to reconcile the two ideas was make Africans less than fully human.

Outside of America, there was little connection between race and slavery. For example, about 20 million out of a total population of at total population of 74 million were serfs in Russia at the time of the US Civil War. In India, there were 9 million slaves out of population of about 40 million around that time. Slavery was also widely practiced in China. In these countries, virtually none of the slaves came from Africa, and the vast majority were native to the countries where they were enslaved.

ResPrivita · 2020-06-26T17:47:38.411Z

Without western Europeans, would slavery still exist throughout the world?

“would slavery still exist throughout the world?”

When has is stopped exactly? - Throughout the world; which is a very big wild place.

Bill.in.PA · 2020-06-26T18:11:47.635Z

Illicit slavery still exists, but Government-supported slavery is gone worldwide. Mauritania was the last country in the world to outlaw slavery in 1981, but slavery is still practiced there.

For reference Mauritania is a Muslim country located in the southwest portion of the Sahara desert. The French outlawed slavery there in 1905, but it returned after the country a gained independence in 1960.

the Guardian – 8 Jun 18

The unspeakable truth about slavery in Mauritania

Though outlawed, slavery persists in Mauritania. Photojournalist Seif Kousmate spent a month there photographing and talking to people touched by its blight

Is ending slavery in Mauritania a form of cultural imperialism?