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Eh well if you stack up the overall death toll, you’ll see who the aggressors are.
The ongoing inhumane treatment of the Palestinians and incursions on their land would suggest Israel is not interested in peace.
Very recently Israelis took to the streets in protest about the way their government was treating Palestinians.

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The death toll doesn’t indicate fault, it indicates which side is better at war and better funded.

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And the Israelis are both yet always seen as the victims.
If their own people are protesting at their governments treatment of the Palestinians maybe there is a problem.
But these events will put everything back by decades.

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Not quoting the post due to length.

There is zero comparison between the IRA and their situation and Hamas vs Israel. The difference is, did the groups who backed the IRA say Death to England?

The groups that back Hamas say EXACTLY that re: Israel. Irans leadership has repeatedly been quoted as saying that they will not stop until Israel no longer exists. Additionally, did the IRA have supporters chanting “Gas the British”?

There are protestors saying exactly that right now.

“Unverified footage shared by the Australian Jewish Association and featured on Sky News appeared to show a small group outside the Opera House lighting flares and chanting “gas the Jews”.”

There is simply no comparison.

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Incredible.

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Palestine was never an independent country or nation.

Its ownership has changed hands thousands of times over the past two millennia. At one point the Caananites had it. Then they lost to the Hebrew tribes and were conquered, beginning Jewish ownership of the land. Then the Neo-Babylonians had their turn with the land and exiled the Jews from it. The Persians then beat the ■■■■ out of the Neo-Babylonians and returned the land to the Jews. A few centuries later the Romans showed up and conquered it for a pretty good while. Then the Byzantines had control of it. Then the Arab tribes showed up and took control of it. Then they got their asses handed to them by the Crusaders and they had it. Then the Arab Caliphate took it back. Then the Ottomans showed up in the Levant and conquered everybody. They had it until 1918 when the British and French took control.

That land has changed hands more times than probably any other piece of land in human history. Point is that the modern Palestinian Arabs never had control of it. They were subjects of the Ottoman Sultan. The Ottoman Sultanate had control of it for hundreds of years. During that time period there was a sizable Jewish Palestinian minority there. And a Palestinian Arab population there. So technically both peoples can say their heritage is on that land. But it really came down to who could control it and owned it.

Once the British decided to terminate their mandate it was given to the UN to come up with a partition plan. The UN turned their results over to both Jewish leadership and Arab leadership to sign off of on it. The Jewish leadership signed, the Arabs refused. The Jewish Palestinians, recognizing the danger they were in (three newly independent Arab countries were preparing for an invasion) fought a civil war with the Palestinian Arabs and declared independence as the state of Israel. The Arab Legion (made up mostly of Egyptians, but included Jordanians, Iraqis, and Lebanese) then invaded in force. During the war, Israel took control not only of the land it had been allotted by the UN Partition but also most of the land that had been allotted to the Arab Palestinians. Because hey it was a ■■■■■■■ war. The Arabs ultimately lost, agreeing to cease fires (but not peace; because peace requires recognition of your opponent and the Arabs weren’t ready to do that) at the lines all of the armies were at when the cease fire went into effect. Syria held the Golan, Jordan the West Bank and East Jerusalem, and Egypt had Gaza. Israel had everything else.

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Actually, to many people, and you seem like one of them, Israelis are always the villains.

Yes, Hamas made a huge mistake and betrayed their own people again. Maybe Palestinians will finally realize that electing a terrorist organization to lead them isn’t in their best interests.

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The term Galilee (part of that area) means Circle of the Nations, or Crossroads of the Nations. Back then, many of the routes from the North and the East to Jerusalem or to Africa went through there. Everyone wanted it.

In 2022 I was on a tour of the Holy Land. Our guide was as knowledgeable and informative as a tour could want. His family has owned the same building in Old Jerusalem for over 300 years. He has been on teams that did archaeological digs. The guy was amazing. He would point out layers of construction on old walls… “Up to that first line is original stonework from Solomon. And that darker section was Crusaders. On top of that is Byzantine…” We went from Galilee to Qumran, west to Caesarea (where I got to sing solo in the Caesarea Amphitheater. Amazing acoustics!) We went into various Palestinian-controlled areas without incident. (Just hold up your passport and don’t make eye contact. And whatever you do, don’t take pictures at the crossings.) Jericho. Bethlehem. Hebron. (Not sure how it would go today though.)

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Good post.

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I’ve always wanted to do a trip like that to the holy land. My great grandmother did that back in 1980s. She also did a European grand tour in the 70s. Started in Italy, then France, then Belgium, and finished in Germany. She was quite the traveling lady. None of her kids (including my grandmother) ever tried to do anything like that.

Hell I’ve never been out of the country. I’ve just always been a money saver and I’ve never wanted to take enough time from work. One day I’m gonna do a big trip like that though.

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That election was 18 years ago.

Nearly half the population of Gaza is 18 and under.

Most of the people living in Gaza today didn’t make that decision.

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I think that it is worth pointing out that there have not been elections in Palestine for national office since 2006; that is a whole generation of Palestinian that haven’t had a say in their government. Maybe When this is all over, Israel should try to stand up some elections?

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Tis the unfortunate reality of their situation.

What were the Israelis supposed to do with them? This was the aftermath of the Second Intifada. They couldn’t just let them move freely because that would have been insane.

The only people who could changed things for Gaza were the Gazan Palestinians themselves. And because they didn’t they are stuck with the mistakes and crimes of their forefathers.

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Got to put a bullet in the head of every Hamas and Islamic Jihad member first.

I would actually support the Israelis overseeing new elections in the PA once the terrorists are all twitching with blood running from their skulls. That’s not a bad plan. Let’s see what the Palestinian people choose this time. Let’s see if they’ve learned some lessons.

Maybe by some miracle they’ll elect a peace party who recognizes Israel’s existence and is willing to abide by signed treaties.

But the key is that Hamas and Islamic Jihad cannot be allowed to run or influence results. So got to violently get of those two groups first.

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I understand that the last election was a long time ago. That’s what happens when you elect a terrorist group, I guess. They likely aren’t going to hold regular elections. But Palestinians have no one to blame but themselves for their terrorist government.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-rivals-agree-elections-end-dispute-doubts-persist-2022-10-13/

The division between Palestinian factions, triggered after Hamas won a legislative election in 2006, has prevented any further elections since then.

Also, look at the date of that article. Is it a coincidence that in October 2022 Palestinians agreed to hold elections within a year, and almost exactly a year later Hamas launched terrorist attacks against Israel? Hamas doesn’t care about the Palestinian people, they care only about holding onto power. Hopefully soon there will be no Hamas members left to hold onto anything.

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Those 14 years old and under in Gaza are a little over 40% of the population.

Just saying that it is a terrible situation and a lot of people are going to die but an enormous percentage of the population affected has had no say in their own fate.

Just want to remember that in the coming weeks.

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It’s a human tragedy. But that’s the nature of our species. Tragedy.

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Release the rumbling it’s the only way to break the cycle!

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We don’t need to cheer it on or dehumanize the victims.

That part gets tiresome.

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Seems to work for Hamas and all the antisemitic pro- Palestinian idiots running around the US right now.

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