Will almighty Jesus/Yahweh say that he saved us all, or just some?


#143

Its your logic you are using. The 2000 year old stories are backed up by the stories because the 2000 year old stories say they are true. Remember, we were talking about logic? Well if a story saying a story is true is all that is needed, then open the flood gates. A lot of “sources” for alien abductions. Do you believe in alien abductions?


#144

Lol give it up. CHRISTIAN faith isnt based on empirical evidence or sound logic. “Christian” faith isnt “loving actions”. Feel free to keep warping the context of the discussion, but might i in a friendly way suggest some humility and a better effort to not hijack discussions with vague sermons that strip discussions of their context? An apology is ok. In fact, apologizing is a loving thing to do. :slight_smile:


#145

Two thousand year old accounts by four authors of the time–plus outside mention of it in history. There is less reason to believe there was a Socrates.

What is the purpose for believing in alien abductions?


#146

So God could create an object that he cannot lift?


#147

Not happy just fighting with Meri, I see.

Once you realized I have decided to ignore you, you need to call me back in. Keep pressing!

Guess what?

God CAN do that.

And you know what else? Even though He can create something he cannot lift, he can also lift it.


#148

I haven’t given vague sermons. You asked about faith and I responded with why I, personally, have faith in Christ. His teachings landed me in the lap of God (so-to-speak). That is what I believe is the purpose of religion–to draw closer to God. For me, it was Christianity that drew me closer.


#149

Except thats not what you were doing. You were claiming faith is based on rests of being a good person amd spreading love. I pointed out this isnt anything specific to the belief in Christ, because many non Christians do this as well. So you havent really explained anything. Have some humility and try to understand


#150

Those pesky atheists i knew it…yes “fighting”. Christians sure like to point the finger and pat themselves on the back when their beliefs get criticized. Always so innocent


#151

In other words, you can just say whatever you want logic amd reason be damned.


#152

So what. There are many ancient accounts of other gods too. There are more than 4 accounts of alien abductions


#153

Four authors of the time? Did any of them meet Jesus? Can you advise us when the gospels were written and by whom? And the outside sources? I am interested.


#154

Ooookaaay… (stepping back gingerly)


#155

Let’s not start this again. Go back and read what I actually wrote. It said nothing about spreading love. If that is what you understood, then you misunderstood. It is not only not what I said–it is not what I meant, either.

I thought you wanted to discuss the resurrection instead? Shall we move forward with that?


#156

Atheists are not pesky. If you find them so, deal with it. But don’t start thinking others feel as you do.


#157

What is your point? Are you saying I should not believe in Jesus’ resurrection. Fine, I shouldn’t believe in it, but I do. Are you saying I should believe in alien abductions? Fine. I should believe in alien abductions, but I do not.

Where do you want to go from here?


#158

Yes, four authors of the time. It is generally understood that Matthew and Luke never met Jesus. Scholars still debate whether the author of John was the Apostle John. Good arguments for both sides. Some think Mark, while not an apostle, may have been a disciple who was present at Jesus’ arrest. (Some argue that odd detail of a young man running away naked, may have been Mark, himself. Mark is thought to be an associate of Peter.)

Mark’s is thought to be the earliest Gospel, around 70. Matthew and Luke were probably a decade or more later, and John’s was the latest one.

Outside sources include Josephus (Jewish historian) is the most common one. Tacitus (Roman historian) (116) is another. Pliny the Younger wrote a letter asking for advice on how to handle early Christians. The Babylonian Talmud also mentions Jesus was hanged on the eve of Passover. I think Tacitus was the one who mentioned that from Jesus rose a most mischievous superstition that he was God. (I would have to double check this.) So, if I lived in the time of Tacitus (a well educated man of the time), he would have sneered at me and called me superstitions. :slight_smile:


#159

What a strange discussion we are having. I say christian faith isn’t based on logic. You give me a reason for your faith and explicitly ask how its illogical. I tell you why its illogical. Now you seem to be getting angry. If you arent interested in dissecting Christian belief just say so.

If you dont want me telling you what is illogical then dont ask.


#160

Im sorry. You hijacked the context. Quit focusing so much on your own thoughts and read others thoughts with humility. Then you wont be so confused.


#161

this is not a very loving conversation


#162

Now along with telling me what I am “really” saying you are also telling me what I feel! I am far from angry because nothing you have said has given anyone any reason for anger. I am somewhat puzzled. What is your point? I have studied my religion. I have practiced it. It has brought me positive results, and given me a few interactions with God. This has made it worth all my time and effort. It has given additional purpose and meaning to my life. I credit Christianity for this because I didn’t think up all these ways of living or any of these philosophies on my own.

Some people (Thomas Jefferson for example) hold the belief there was nothing more special about Jesus other than he was a great teacher. What is wrong with that? It is not my belief, because of my own studies of early Christianity and my practice of Christianity today. Those who practice other beliefs (religion or science) are going to have their own unique experiences and will probably arrive at different conclusions. Right? These differences interest me and I enjoy discussing them. They do not threaten me–and nor should my beliefs threaten others.

So start over. I am not angry. I am not sermonizing. I am simply relating my own experiences of Christianity and what it has done for me. I am not trying to convert you–or anyone. If I were, I would certainly start with the atheists in my own family, wouldn’t I?

I enjoy discussions…except when people tell me what I am “really” saying or what I am feeling. That is exasperating, but my own tendency is to laugh it off, not to get angry. :sunny: