Will almighty Jesus/Yahweh say that he saved us all, or just some?


So God is not bound by logic? He can make 1+1=3?

As to miracles, I’m not looking for logic to explain it. I am happy with saying it was a miracle from God (assuming no other explanation is possible). But first we must establish that these miracles happened and that alternate explanations have been exhausted.





Often enough, anyway. It certainly did for Moses. Moses had no proof. All he had was his word. Today (as was probably the case then) people trust Moses knew what he was talking about and related it accurately, and others believe he must have hallucinated or dreamed the entire event. There are accounts after account after account, of people who have related their experiences with God. No wonder there are so many people of faith…yet what causes even greater wonder is that even upon hearing these accounts, disbelief continues.


How would you describe the essential you? Is it body? Mind? Soul/spirit? The Gospel of Matthew reports Jesus saying, “The spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak.” Think of a time in life of having an experience like that, because an example from your own life is the best example.


Never sure which parts of the Bible you take literally but would point out that a bush that burns without being consumed and as voice emanating from it is more than just His word.

Can we agree that not all accounts are true? Plenty of experiences with various gods to sift through. Which are true? How would you determine which to be true?

Plenty of eyewitnesses to Bigfoot as well. Some lie, some are deceived, some are crazy and some are just mistaken. You hear all these accounts and you still disbelieve in Bigfoot? Same for God.

The default should be to disbelieve until evidence comes forward. Otherwise you are left believing in a host of contradictory gods.


Moses was alone at the time. All his audience had for proof was his word.


Ah, you are thinking of Moses’ audience. I was thinking of Moses himself. Moses was provided pretty strong evidence.

But you are wrong that Moses’ audience had only his word. God provided Moses the ability to turn his staff to a snake, to create and cure a leprous hand and to spill Nile water and turn to blood. He did these things for the Hebrews to support his claim to having talked to God.

Exodus 4:29-31 you should read it.


He’s not bound by man’s logic.

And yes. In fact, He HAS made 1+1 equal three already.

He has also made 1+1 equal one!


So logic need not apply to God?

Your opinion is noted.


Not man’s logic. Correct.


Is there logic in the universe that defies man’s logic? Do you think there is a planet where man has never existed that does not obey the three basic laws of logic?


I have. I have also read accounts that any magician worth his salt in those days could do the same.


Hard to say.

But you’re limiting your thinking to the universe. That’s what God created. He’s outside the universe.

That’s why I said that God is not limited to man’s logic. All mankind has is what he has developed so far, and even that has been developed through contact with only a subset of the universe.


Studying Greek and Roman mythology is interesting. In some instances, the stories appear to be based on actual human individuals who passed on. I’ve forgotten most of what I once read on this, as it covered lore in general. For example, some of our best loved fairy tales were originally meant as porn.

Truth does deserve investigation, and truth is unafraid of what is revealed. I started out by applying what was taught to my own life. Was it good sound advice, did it work? Next, I spent a lot of time reading through languages, history, cultures, and the earliest commentaries I could find.

Take Noah’s Ark for example. Many people now merely see it as a story where God killed babies. Or, at the other extreme, an explanation of why there are no longer unicorns on earth (Noah forgot them).

Originally, the essential story told of how mankind and his culture was an unholy mess. One righteous man and his family were given a chance to start over. The family left the ark, the father got drunk. One son thought it was best to cover up the whole matter; the other son thought it was great family gossip. In other words, even when the most righteous man of the time is saved and given a chance to begin anew, the first thing that springs forth? Unrighteousness. So much for dreams about if we (either individually or as a nation) could just start over, things would be different.


Keep digging and we discover the truth of how the story of Bigfoot began. (A father’s practical joke, that the family carried on.) The same happens when we keep digging for God. Truth emerges.


There is no evidence in the spiritual realm or of the spiritual realm. As I noted before, it can use objects as we do in a science class. It cannot be measured. It cannot be repeated. Therefore, there are issues, incidents where we must use a different way of knowing, and that is called the subjective. Just as the objective findings can prove false at times, the subjective is not necessarily false. They are simply different ways of knowing. If one has just a hammer, sometimes that hammer is used to break apart a piece of wood. However, if one has both a hammer and a saw, why not use that second tool. The same with the objective and the subjective. The objective cannot explain all. We need another tool for knowing about that.


How exactly could Biblical miracles be verified? Hebrews 11:1 defines faith as "the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. " If we can, or have to see it, it isn’t faith. What good then is your logic when applied to the Bible?


Magicians aside (“The Ten Commandments”?)…

You said the Hebrews only had the word of Moses and had to trust him. They didn’t. They were also given three miracles performed in front of them. Are you claiming the Hebrew elders were credulous idiots that would follow a charlaton magician?


He is? Do you have any evidence of existence outside the universe?

I agree with that.


I was under the impression you saw this as allegory. Are you now claiming it happened?