Why would you want to hunt a wolf? Whats the point

toreyj01 · 2021-03-09T22:24:29.978Z

Samm:

toreyj01:

Samm:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Scratch:

Deer…

What do you think wolves do to the deer population if left unchecked?

Why would you hunt deer? You can buy venison on the internet.

Wolves tend to do a better job with the deer than hunters do, they pick off the sick ones, not the biggest and healthiest ones.

Wrong. That’s a myth. They pick the ones that are easiest to kill … the young. Sure, every now and then they come across a lame or elderly animal as will kill it, but the predominant victims are the newborn and juveniles.

But hunters often seek the biggest bucks with the largest racks, and those are the ones who would survive the winter and breed stronger progeny. Reverse darwinism, so to speak. Wolves aren’t going to tackle some beast of a deer, they are going after the smaller ones, the babies and the ill ones. Darwinism in a nutshell, the strong survive.

That’s the theory, but prey animals have been hunted in such a manner for more than a hundred fifty years without having a measurable effect on the herds. There is also a theory that taking the largest, strongest males improves the genetic diversity of the herds because it allows for more males to breed.

Sort of counters the whole argument I hear from hunters, and I know quite a few of them being from Michigan. We have lots of deer here. They argue they are culling the herd so they can survive the winter, but culling should entail winnowing out the weak ones, not the strong ones. Natural selection is billions of years in the making, while hunting with rifles and bait is fairly recent.

It doesn’t make sense to kill the strongest deer if we truly care about keeping the herd healthy, it just doesn’t.

FloridaYankee · 2021-03-09T22:33:59.641Z

toreyj01:

Samm:

toreyj01:

Samm:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Scratch:

Deer…

What do you think wolves do to the deer population if left unchecked?

Why would you hunt deer? You can buy venison on the internet.

Wolves tend to do a better job with the deer than hunters do, they pick off the sick ones, not the biggest and healthiest ones.

Wrong. That’s a myth. They pick the ones that are easiest to kill … the young. Sure, every now and then they come across a lame or elderly animal as will kill it, but the predominant victims are the newborn and juveniles.

But hunters often seek the biggest bucks with the largest racks, and those are the ones who would survive the winter and breed stronger progeny. Reverse darwinism, so to speak. Wolves aren’t going to tackle some beast of a deer, they are going after the smaller ones, the babies and the ill ones. Darwinism in a nutshell, the strong survive.

That’s the theory, but prey animals have been hunted in such a manner for more than a hundred fifty years without having a measurable effect on the herds. There is also a theory that taking the largest, strongest males improves the genetic diversity of the herds because it allows for more males to breed.

Sort of counters the whole argument I hear from hunters, and I know quite a few of them being from Michigan. We have lots of deer here. They argue they are culling the herd so they can survive the winter, but culling should entail winnowing out the weak ones, not the strong ones. Natural selection is billions of years in the making, while hunting with rifles and bait is fairly recent.

It doesn’t make sense to kill the strongest deer if we truly care about keeping the herd healthy, it just doesn’t.

It’s like saying that taking the smartest people out of the gene pool raises the IQ of all the rest.

Samm · 2021-03-09T22:39:38.175Z

toreyj01:

Samm:

toreyj01:

Samm:

toreyj01:

WuWei:

Scratch:

Deer…

What do you think wolves do to the deer population if left unchecked?

Why would you hunt deer? You can buy venison on the internet.

Wolves tend to do a better job with the deer than hunters do, they pick off the sick ones, not the biggest and healthiest ones.

Wrong. That’s a myth. They pick the ones that are easiest to kill … the young. Sure, every now and then they come across a lame or elderly animal as will kill it, but the predominant victims are the newborn and juveniles.

But hunters often seek the biggest bucks with the largest racks, and those are the ones who would survive the winter and breed stronger progeny. Reverse darwinism, so to speak. Wolves aren’t going to tackle some beast of a deer, they are going after the smaller ones, the babies and the ill ones. Darwinism in a nutshell, the strong survive.

That’s the theory, but prey animals have been hunted in such a manner for more than a hundred fifty years without having a measurable effect on the herds. There is also a theory that taking the largest, strongest males improves the genetic diversity of the herds because it allows for more males to breed.

Sort of counters the whole argument I hear from hunters, and I know quite a few of them being from Michigan. We have lots of deer here. They argue they are culling the herd so they can survive the winter, but culling should entail winnowing out the weak ones, not the strong ones. Natural selection is billions of years in the making, while hunting with rifles and bait is fairly recent.

It doesn’t make sense to kill the strongest deer if we truly care about keeping the herd healthy, it just doesn’t.

Are you suggesting that all hunters in Michigan are trophy hunting? In my experience, most hunters seek a younger, smaller, more tender animal because they make a better meal.

Winter die-offs have little to do with what animals are taken by hunters. It has more to do with the health of the habitat. An over browsed habitat can kill the strongest of animals over the course of the winter. It cab be particularly hard on the big dominant bulls who burn tons of fat reserves defending their right to breed.

SixFoot · 2021-03-09T22:40:18.228Z

Vultures gotta eat too.

Samm · 2021-03-09T22:40:43.962Z

FloridaYankee:

It’s like saying that taking the smartest people out of the gene pool raises the IQ of all the rest.

No its not, not even remotely.

Scratch · 2021-03-10T01:37:42.364Z

Samm:

In my experience, most hunters seek a younger, smaller, more tender animal because they make a better meal.

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklynn for sale…Deer hunters are after the trophy Bucks. In Ny you can only take bucks unless you get a doe tag. (bow and muzzle loader can take either)

Bill.in.PA · 2021-03-10T01:41:56.173Z

Eastern coyotes are actually part wolf and dog according to DNA analysis.

Assessment of coyote-wolf-dog admixture using ancestry-informative diagnostic SNPs (nih.gov)

Oldandtired · 2021-03-10T01:45:31.408Z

Hunters cull the herds of the biggest bucks who have served their purpose and stop the inbreeding that goes on when the strongest are allowed to live too long.

Oldandtired · 2021-03-10T01:48:57.256Z

If the male deer are allowed to live to long the herd get’s weaker when the male deer is daddy grandfather and son. If we really care about keeping the head healthy we allow younger males to bring in new blood.

STODR · 2021-03-10T02:10:44.966Z

Shush, facts are not allowed.

Samm · 2021-03-10T07:54:53.482Z

Scratch:

Samm:

In my experience, most hunters seek a younger, smaller, more tender animal because they make a better meal.

If you believe that, I have a bridge in Brooklynn for sale…Deer hunters are after the trophy Bucks. In Ny you can only take bucks unless you get a doe tag. (bow and muzzle loader can take either)

Show your work. As I said, in my experience, the vast majority of deer hunters are out to put meat in the freezer, not trophy grade antlers on the wall.

Samm · 2021-03-10T07:57:28.777Z

Oldandtired:

Hunters cull the herds of the biggest bucks who have served their purpose and stop the inbreeding that goes on when the strongest are allowed to live too long.

Correction … Trophy hunters cull the largest bucks. Most meat hunters want a younger more tender deer.

But you are right about inbreeding when the old stag stays around too long and begins breeding with his daughters and granddaughters.

toreyj01 · 2021-03-10T15:52:35.287Z

Oldandtired:

If the male deer are allowed to live to long the herd get’s weaker when the male deer is daddy grandfather and son. If we really care about keeping the head healthy we allow younger males to bring in new blood.

That’s interesting, haven’t heard that argument before. But how does that explain deer thriving for eons before mankind arrived? Thanks for the response to you and Samm, you have both been polite about all this and as I have said, I am not a hunter and don’t understand a lot of this.

I am a fairly good shot, too, which is sort of a shame. But I couldn’t bear to kill an animal in the wild. To each his or her own.

SixFoot · 2021-03-10T16:04:09.220Z

Dozens of different aspects to it. Different strokes for different hunters. It all comes together in the form of managing the creatures occupying our land.

They thrived and crashed and thrived and crashed before us, but now we’re here, and we have land and resources to manage.

There is no waste in nature.

conan · 2021-03-10T19:38:28.490Z

toreyj01:

But how does that explain deer thriving for eons before mankind arrived?

Actually there are about 10 times whitetail now then before white man arrived.

Samm · 2021-03-10T23:38:06.325Z

toreyj01:

Oldandtired:

If the male deer are allowed to live to long the herd get’s weaker when the male deer is daddy grandfather and son. If we really care about keeping the head healthy we allow younger males to bring in new blood.

That’s interesting, haven’t heard that argument before. But how does that explain deer thriving for eons before mankind arrived? Thanks for the response to you and Samm, you have both been polite about all this and as I have said, I am not a hunter and don’t understand a lot of this.

I am a fairly good shot, too, which is sort of a shame. But I couldn’t bear to kill an animal in the wild. To each his or her own.

Thriving is a relative term. Historically, before mankind arrived and interfered with nature, wildlife populations fluctuated wildly (no pun intended.) The relationship between food and population when not managed can still be seen today in animals like rabbits and small predators. Most of the non-managed animal populations connected by predator/prey relationships go through regular cycles of boom and bust.

Samm · 2021-03-10T23:41:12.513Z

conan:

toreyj01:

But how does that explain deer thriving for eons before mankind arrived?

Actually there are about 10 times whitetail now then before white man arrived.

Which is way too many. Those areas that are overrun by deer also have virtually no predation except by automobile. What well managed areas have it both more deer (or elk or moose or whatever) and more predators.

TheRedComet · 2021-03-10T23:45:17.128Z

I can vouch for that.

White tail where I live are out of control.

At least once or twice per week, I’m dodging a deer. I drive 20mph slower going home on night shift than I do during the day shift.

I’ve hit three in the past five years. Twice in my old car and once in my new car.

Hell I need to become a hunter. I literally watch deer walk across the field almost every night. I’ve even walked out on my back porch and saw several just standing in my back yard. Multiple nights in a week. I’ve never had an interest in hunting but they are making it almost too tempting.

Plus all the fresh tracks. My backyard isn’t fully grown in yet (where I placed my trailer was recently just woods) and I can see fresh tracks almost every night.

Samm · 2021-03-10T23:50:26.447Z

The ironic thing is that in most of those overrun by deer areas, the average person would be aghast if they saw you shoot a deer and they would be even more aghast if predators were reintroduced and one of them ate Fido.

conan · 2021-03-11T00:20:29.454Z

Venison is good protein source. Corn fed deer are much better eating IMO then beef.

Mule deer out here…screw that. Giver me corn fed whitetail any day.