Why Do We Need to Raise the Debt Ceiling?

[Gaius]

@Guilds

@STODR

So you haven’t read got it. That is what we all knew, it was just your typical lib outrage about something something GOP.

I read a summary.

What are the specific cuts? what else is in the bill, that does not involve cutting spending?

If you cannot answer that, are you sure you read it?

Most of the cuts are left up to the states.
The backbone of the GOP plan is convert the current “mandatory” spending into state block grants and let each state determine what new formula it wants to use.

EG a State whose residents get $10b for a program this year, next year will get a single block grant with only a 1% increase. The states can then decide if they want to cut bureaucrats, or reduce benefits or means test.

They are passing the buck (dodging the tough decisions) and that is why they are doing it, but ultimately it would be a good thing. The entitlement needs of Florida and North Dakota and New York are different and the top-down one-size-fits-all Zentral-Plannung model is a dismal failures o it’s not all bad.

From Politico

The proposal that Speaker Kevin McCarthy unveiled Wednesday would raise the federal debt limit while repealing the host of green energy tax incentives

From FOXNews:

The summary of the proposal by the Republican Study Committee (RSC), first obtained by Fox News, would

• slash a litany of discretionary programs,
• reform federal programs like Medicaid and the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) into block grants,
• institute “zero-baseline budgeting,” and more.

. . . , the RSC says, would bring the United States to a balanced budget in five years.

From The Hill

• It would cut $2.5 trillion from current Medicare projections,
• $3.3 trillion from other health programs including Medicaid,
• and lop another $3.5 trillion from other mandatory programs that largely comprise the social safety net.
• Discretionary spending, which funds the government, would drop by $3.5 trillion, reducing its size as a share of the economy by a third.

GOP’s debt-limit plan would gut Biden’s climate law. White House's response:...

House Republicans reveal answer to Biden's budget, say it could eliminate...

https://thehill.com/policy/finance/554412-conservative-republicans-propose-14t-in-cuts-to-balance-budget/?rl=1

[Rurudyne]

Mandatory means though there is no enumerated power for it the piggies have their noses in the trough and they will squeal to high heaven if their provided at other people’s expense slop is taken away.

[Ceasar]

@Publius

The point is, if you completely zero out all non-mandatory (i.e., discretionary) spending, including all defense spending, you still will be running at a deficit. The great bulk of what’s left (non-discretionary (or mandatory)) spending is Social Security and Medicare.

Allowing the public debt of the US to be questioned would be the surest route to “bankruptcy,” as it would increase borrowing costs for both current and future debt.

If they had not continually raided SS for decades it would be quite solvent. It’s presently a Ponzi scheme.

You missed the point. There is MASSIVE WASTE. MASSIVE. There is MASSIVE spending on things not a NEED. There is MASSIVE overspending on things that should be open contracts for, NOT requiring high wages, but open to any company.

Cost overruns and time overruns that just get paid extra from government when it should make the company honor the contract, corruption, and absurd projects that never should be funded to begin with.

Keeping 700,000 empty buildings maintained when they should be sold, WITHOUT all the MASSIVE red tape and endless wasted time to just sell them. List them with a realtor and let them go!

Foreign aid, corporate welfare, lazy people on welfare, etc.

There’s plenty places to cut or reduce costs without touching SS. To continue as we are is a sure way to totally end SS and Medicare forever. National bankruptcy will absolutely do just that.

[Ceasar]

@DisturbedGuy

@WuWei

@DisturbedGuy

@WuWei

Spending is doing the driving.

Agreed, but when the credit card comes due it’s time to pay the bill not argue about how we got there.

True. But unless you reduce spending, the “ceiling” is playing pretend.

The first thing to do is cut up the credit card.

I’m good with that during the next budget negotiations after we protect the full faith of our debt. It would destroy the economy if we do not.

I’d cut defense by 30% and every other excutive brach by 7% to begin paying down our debt in the next budget.

I’d totally get rid of several departments, DOE, and several others. That would go a long way. Also cut wages to all government agencies, fire the 87,000 new auditors and half the remaining, and much more. There’s plenty things to cut we don’t need and often oppress us.

[Ceasar]

@Safiel

There is only one question to be addressed. What action is required to protect the full faith and credit of the United States???

The answer is to raise the debt ceiling sufficiently to allow for sufficient borrowing to cover expiring debt instruments and debt interest which MUST be paid on time.

There is NO “choice” in this matter. The full faith and credit of the United States MUST BE UPHELD.

Raising the debt ceiling is not an endorsement of new or increased spending. It merely allows us to honor our sacrosanct debt obligations.

A default should be unthinkable and using default as a weapon to exhort policy should also be unthinkable.

In any event.

Republicans control the House of Representatives and thus ANY spending MUST have their endorsement. If they want to cut spending, pass spending bills with cuts and send them to the Senate and bargain with the Democrats with that.

They won’t, of course. They will send the same bloated defense spending bill and NDAA that always gets passed. They may make a few token cuts in discretionary that will be totally meaningless. They won’t go anywhere near Social Security and Medicare.

The only real thing they will push is likely to roll back the extra spending for the IRS, but that will be about it.

When it comes right down to it, both parties love to spend. Unless and until that that changes, there will be no spending policy changes.

Yes, there is choice, cuts, deep and wide. The credibility already isn’t there.

[Ceasar]

@Guilds

How many times have the Democrats held the country hostage with the debt ceiling BS?

Never, they love overspending and debt. It’s STUPID, but it’s them.

[Ceasar]

@Orygun

O’ course we could always emulate Canada/Europe and just raise taxes on wealthier folks and corporations to pay for all the stuff.

They raise taxes on everyone.

[Guvnah]

@Publius

The point is, if you completely zero out all non-mandatory …

Nothing is mandatory. Whatever law/dictate/order that requires something to be spent can overridden by another law/dictate/order.

[Guvnah]

@Orygun

The most fascinating part of this is that Trump …

[Guvnah]

@Orygun

Freezing spending is just a dumb back of the napkin way of avoiding looking at what is being cut.

And … ???

So what?

[Guvnah]

@Publius

Cutting defense by 30% and everything else by 7% will not get you anywhere close to being able to pay down the debt, ever.

The discussion is just to stop adding to the debt.

Paying it off is a whole 'nother thread.

[Guilds]

@STODR

I didn’t ask for a summary of generic terms. I asked for something specific.

That’s the problem…there are no specifics in the bill on what will be cut and by how much.

Then there is this…

McCarthy’s plan would also repeal green-energy incentives signed into law by Biden last year, boost domestic oil and gas production and scrap his $400 billion student-loan forgiveness effort.

Just bad political theater…nothing more

[Paul_Thomson]

@Guilds

McCarthy’s plan would also repeal green-energy incentives signed into law by Biden last year, boost domestic oil and gas production and scrap his $400 billion student-loan forgiveness effort.

Just bad political theater…nothing more

Sounds good. You like those Biden initiatives? Why?

[Gaius]

@Guilds

That’s the problem…there are no specifics in the bill on what will be cut and by how much.

Aside from specifically undoing several specifically-mentioned Biden program, the GOP legislation converts many of the so-called mandatory entitlements into block grants to states . . . each state then gets to decide which type of cut suits it best.

• Florida has an aging population. It gets to choose cuts that will reflect that.
• Pacific NW have a huge fentanyl problem. It gets to choose cuts that will reflect that.
• In Cali, salaries are high and things are expensive. It get to design its programs with different qualifying incomes.

Etc.

So yes the GOP bill does not specify one-size-fits-all cuts.
Why should it? It is letting each state decide which cut works the best for each state.

[WuWei]

Dems are those women who don’t understand why the check bounced when they still have blank checks in their checkbook.

[Guvnah]

Answer to the thread title:

We shouldn’t have to raise the debt ceiling. Especially not as a recurring practice like we do now.

But we have painted ourselves into a fiscally irresponsible corner, and so here we are. We must do it.

Trying to tie spending discussions to raising the ceiling once again is an attempt to make this the last time we have to do it. I don’t expect much from those discussions.

[Publius]

@Ceasar

@Publius

The point is, if you completely zero out all non-mandatory (i.e., discretionary) spending, including all defense spending, you still will be running at a deficit. The great bulk of what’s left (non-discretionary (or mandatory)) spending is Social Security and Medicare.

Allowing the public debt of the US to be questioned would be the surest route to “bankruptcy,” as it would increase borrowing costs for both current and future debt.

If they had not continually raided SS for decades it would be quite solvent. It’s presently a Ponzi scheme.

You missed the point. There is MASSIVE WASTE. MASSIVE. There is MASSIVE spending on things not a NEED. There is MASSIVE overspending on things that should be open contracts for, NOT requiring high wages, but open to any company.

Cost overruns and time overruns that just get paid extra from government when it should make the company honor the contract, corruption, and absurd projects that never should be funded to begin with.

Keeping 700,000 empty buildings maintained when they should be sold, WITHOUT all the MASSIVE red tape and endless wasted time to just sell them. List them with a realtor and let them go!

Foreign aid, corporate welfare, lazy people on welfare, etc.

There’s plenty places to cut or reduce costs without touching SS. To continue as we are is a sure way to totally end SS and Medicare forever. National bankruptcy will absolutely do just that.

Pocket change.