Why did the democratic party suddenly become so pro war?

JayJay · 2020-09-21T16:28:33.496Z

noSpaces:

It’s not like the flip flopping is one sided. There were cries that the Taliban were going to topple Pakistan and get the nukes and that we don’t negotiate with terrorists, etc. Yet now we are openly negotiating with the Taliban and ready to leave them largely unsupervised by a US presence. Things change.

And it’s not complaints that we are extricating ourselves from wars.

It’s how we are doing it.

By acceding to demands of strongmen like Erdogan instead of using our power to tell him to get bent…I.e. leaving on our terms instead of because Erdogan threatened us.

Or relaxing pressure on North Korea, lending Kim legitimacy, while getting precisely nothing in return.

You can extricate from wars from a position of strength…or you can do it like Chamberlain.

The latter sets you up for problems further down the road…that a Dem President will likely have to clean up, and therefore get blamed for.

The Norquist Plan applied to foreign policy.

altair1013 · 2020-09-21T16:40:39.169Z

JayJay:

And it’s not complaints that we are extricating ourselves from wars.

Yes it is. They freaked out when Trump decided he didn’t want a war in Syria.

JayJay · 2020-09-21T16:52:40.119Z

altair1013:

JayJay:

And it’s not complaints that we are extricating ourselves from wars.

Yes it is. They freaked out when Trump decided he didn’t want a war in Syria.

No…they didn’t.

Axxowiz · 2020-09-21T17:09:37.677Z

Regardless of which party did what, we do know were Biden stands on military intervention from past votes. From Politifact.

“Biden as a senator voted for resolutions that supported interventions in Iraq and Yugoslavia (Serbia and Montenegro). As vice president, he followed the policies of the Obama administration, which included interventions in Syria and Libya”.

There are those in the Democratic Party that are not hawks but the last two nominees for president for the democrats have both been hawks, with a record to show.

DougBH · 2020-09-21T17:10:40.537Z

Better war than agree with Trump. Its been their philosophy for four years.

altair1013 · 2020-09-21T17:12:41.563Z

JayJay:

altair1013:

Yes it is. They freaked out when Trump decided he didn’t want a war in Syria.

No…they didn’t.

Riiight! Now, I clearly remembering them thanking the President for keeping us out of another war. Thanks for the reminder.

Cratic3947 · 2020-09-21T17:15:35.715Z

I don’t know, during the Bush admin many dems acted like anti-war Monks with perfect piety. “Stop the endless war” yard signs and bumper stickers were everywhere. They yelled bout how our Intel community was incompetent, and wanted to get out of Iraq now!

Then Obama’s elected and they invade Libya for no reason and leave it worse than Iraq… Now they want to send other people’s kids to fight in Syria? It’s one odd group on the left…

JayJay · 2020-09-21T17:43:24.826Z

altair1013:

JayJay:

altair1013:

Yes it is. They freaked out when Trump decided he didn’t want a war in Syria.

No…they didn’t.

Riiight! Now, I clearly remembering them thanking the President for keeping us out of another war. Thanks for the reminder.

I clearly see you trying to frame the conversation to fit your view of reality and failing.

But you keep being you.

altair1013 · 2020-09-21T21:11:49.494Z

JayJay:

I clearly see you trying to frame the conversation to fit your view of reality and failing.

But you keep being you.

I see clearly you are trying to avoid why liberals have suddenly become war hawks and are failing. Bigly.

But you keep being you.

Paul_Thomson · 2020-09-22T02:56:04.450Z

[quote=“JayJay, post:17, topic:235546, full:true”]

altair1013:

JayJay:

And it’s not complaints that we are extricating ourselves from wars.
[/quote]

Yes it is. They freaked out when Trump decided he didn’t want a war in Syria.

No…they didn’t.

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GrandWazoo · 2020-09-22T03:10:37.918Z

altair1013:

They have been demanding military spending cuts for decades. They want to cut the military budget then insist that we send troops into battle. It’s totally bat ■■■■ crazy. I would love to hear an explanation.

Okay, how is this. Currently our military can beat the ■■■■ out of anyone 20 times over. So what if we reduce the military budget a little. We would still be able to beat the ■■■■ out of anyone 18 times over.

Safiel · 2020-09-22T03:22:41.626Z

GrandWazoo:

altair1013:

They have been demanding military spending cuts for decades. They want to cut the military budget then insist that we send troops into battle. It’s totally bat ■■■■ crazy. I would love to hear an explanation.

Okay, how is this. Currently our military can beat the ■■■■ out of anyone 20 times over. So what if we reduce the military budget a little. We would still be able to beat the ■■■■ out of anyone 18 times over.

It is not about beating anybody any amount of times over.

It is about feeding the defense contractors.

It always has been.

Paul_Thomson · 2020-09-22T09:27:20.422Z

It’s general engineering practice. You always over-engineer a solution to a problem. Better than the beams collapsing because someone added one more kilogram than expected to the floor load.

johnrandolph · 2020-09-22T10:50:29.528Z

They learned a hard lesson in the 70’s. Peace and prosperity don’t sell in US politics. They’ve tried to out warmonger the GOPers ever since.

Ben_Natuf · 2020-09-22T11:07:19.826Z

suddenly?

they’ve been trying to convince us we’re at war with russia for 4 years.

Ben_Natuf · 2020-09-22T11:10:43.374Z

really?

our number 1 adversary globally is China. The only way we could beat them is if our nukes landed before they launched any.

Ben_Natuf · 2020-09-22T11:23:24.280Z

you’re confused.

the Taliban was the legitimate government of A-stan. We overthrew them for their support of AQ and installed a different regime. That regime is now in talks with us involved to reconcile. In the agreements we have made a US presence will remain in A-stan to counter and resurgence of AQ and the Taliban has agreed to it. If they had given up AQ 18 years ago we would never have overthrown them to begin with.

Ben_Natuf · 2020-09-22T11:31:27.800Z

Nixon ended the war in vietnem
Reagan ended the cold war
Eisenhower ended the fighting in Korea
Trump is bringing peace in the ME

dderatz · 2020-09-22T11:34:30.508Z

I can speak only for myself, but the objection to the withdrawal from Syria was 1)
It seemed Ill conceived and hastily arrived at; 2) did not appear to enhance any strategic interest of the US; 3) left the Kurds (up to then our main fighting ally in Syria) high and dry; but most importantly 4) was a huge kow-tow to Erdogan, who is definitely not our ally, so he could a) invade the part of Syria that would be Kurdistan, once again betraying the Kurds. In other words, I objected because it seemed a pointless action that benefited only Turkey. And since the military establishment did not support it, the only real effect was that our troops moved to another area nearby.

I have no problem withdrawing from Afghanistan, where we have no business being anyway, before it destroys us like it did the UK and the Soviet Union.

Ben_Natuf · 2020-09-22T11:39:14.833Z

dderatz:

I can speak only for myself, but the objection to the withdrawal from Syria was 1)
It seemed Ill conceived and hastily arrived at; 2) did not appear to enhance any strategic interest of the US; 3) left the Kurds (up to then our main fighting ally in Syria) high and dry; but most importantly 4) was a huge kow-tow to Erdogan, who is definitely not our ally, so he could a) invade the part of Syria that would be Kurdistan, once again betraying the Kurds. In other words, I objected because it seemed a pointless action that benefited only Turkey. And since the military establishment did not support it, the only real effect was that our troops moved to another area nearby.

I have no problem withdrawing from Afghanistan, where we have no business being anyway, before it destroys us like it did the UK and the Soviet Union.

what a completely silly post.

we have no business in A-stan but do in Syria? How does that work?

the prognostications about withdrawing our 24 troops from northern Syria in the face of a Turkish onslaught all appear to have been ■■■■■■■■ and Trump’s move rather brilliant.

Turkey is our ally… did you forget?