Why are we giving Ukraine ANY military assisance?

Good point.

Nothing but trouble for the last 2 administrations.

:dove:

Keeping Russia tied up in Ukraine with some money and weapons seems pretty pragmatic to me, as Russia is openly trying to destabilize NATO, the EU and democratic elections in Western countries.

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Okay, where to start.

First off, Ukraine isn’t afraid to fight Russia. They’re doing it every day and have the daily casualty count to prove it.

Also, Ukraine uses their artillery all the time. UNIAN has tons of videos of them using it. I’ve watched them hitting bunkers, command posts, armoured vehicles, artillery pieces, advanced electronic jamming equipment that it would be impossible for rebels to have acquired except through Russia. Ukrainian artillery has really reduced Russian/rebel artillery strikes. Why?
Because of the counter battery radars Obama gave Ukraine.

Some estimates already have thousands of dead Russian soldiers since 2014 and I believe those estimates. Russia won’t acknowledge any deaths, but the research looks good. So Ukraine has and is doing what you want.

As to why we give military aid to Ukraine, it is to help their defense against invasion. The stronger they are the less likely Russia pushes further in. Tries to take Mariupol and form a land bridge to Crimea. Ukraine can make a lot of their own military equipment, but not some of the advanced stuff. That’s why Javelins are good. Sends a message, quick to integrate, and Ukraine can actually afford them. And I do want to mention that Trump didn’t give Ukraine Javelins. He let them buy them. There is a difference. But thst’s what Ukraine needs. Advanced tech to supplement what they have and can produce. Radars, night vision, communications and training training training. That’s what Obama gave them. Not blankets. Ukraine had almost no military in 2014 and had to build it with ours and others help. Trump continued that aid, which they need, and I appreciate that. Until he halted it to get them to investigate Biden so Biden wouldnt beat him in 2020. Trump is a disgrace and needs to go.

Ukraine now has to work really intelligently to get Russia out of Donbas. Im not sure if the slow disengagement from certain points along the front is the correct move, but maybe it leads to giving Putin an out to leave Donbad which is costing Russia a lot. We’ll see.

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Okay. So the Russians liberated part of Ukraine? I guess we’ll have to wait to see what the next move is.

So the Russians are taking heavy casualties?

I’m pretty confident they’ve already taken thousands of killed and wounded. I think probably thousands of killed.

Any evidence of that? I believe that Donald Trump has killed more Russians than the Ukrainians.

I’ll post some stuff. Willing to admit you don’t reallly know too much about Ukraine? Your claim about them not using artillery showed that.

Would that be important to you? Are you playing gotcha with me? :rofl:

Okay, you’re trolling. I’m done trying to have a real conversation.

Wise choice grasshopper. Does this mean we are now going to have a fake conversation?

Ukraine will never stand up to Russia.

We give them army stuff so they can stay in power.

Here is an article about 200 dead from Pskov, and only Pskov.

Yeah. Russia is classifying their dead. But according to the US State Department, it was around 400-500 dead in 2015. I’d imagine the number is much higher by now.

Russian Separatist casualties is 5,000+ and I’d imagine some of them are probably Russian soldiers as well.

Absolutely. Over four years later, I have no problem believing their dead is in the thousands. I mean 200 just in Pskov.

Thanks for the thoughtful and knowledgeable response.
Can you compare the world influence of a Russia with Ukraine vs a Russia without Ukraine?
One of the witnesses made a statement about that but I can’t find it now.

Great question, this has been asked before and this is a great quote:

“It cannot be stressed enough that without Ukraine, Russia ceases to be an empire, but with Ukraine suborned and then subordinated, Russia automatically becomes an empire [95].”

This is a well known quote. Did someone use it during the hearing today?

Ukraine is the breadbasket for Russia the way the Midwest is for us.

Yeah, if you want to throw a monkey wrench into Russia’s plans, constrain their range of options and put them on the defensive, there’s no better place to do it.

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