Who will pay the costs if the thousands in the caravan are allowed on American soil?


And what are the facts?
In 1892 Francis Bellamy published the following words in The Youth’s Companion:

“I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

On June 22, 1942, fifty years after Bellamy published the above mentioned pledge, Congress adopted our nation’s pledge of allegiance which contains a very significant change:

“I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.”

Bellamy’s words did not signify an allegiance to “the Flag of the United States”. Instead, it stated “my Flag”.

Still later, in 1954, the pledge of allegiance as adopted by Congress was again changed to include “under God” and now reads:

"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

What does all this mean? Francis Bellamy’s pledge, and its salute which mimicked a salute later adopted by the Nazi’s was intentionally changed to signify an allegiance, not to “my flag”, but to the Flag of the United States, “one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”.



Which doesn’t negate the fact is that bellamy was a socialist and created our pledge no matter how much you want it to


Quote Bellamy’s pledge, and then quote our Nation’s pledge of allegiance.




Its already been done, it’s already been explained to you. And you refuse to answer simple questions posed to you. You don’t want to be a participant in this conversation because you know you already lost. You continually posting the same thing over and over is not going to change history or fact.

Find one other person on this forum who agrees with you that Bellamy was not the creator of our pledge of allegiance. Further post one sourced article suggesting that it is attributed to anyone else. Go ahead.
You can roll your eyes all you want but that isn’t going to help you.

This is Rose type responding at this point.


I asked you to Quote Bellamy’s pledge, and then quote our Nation’s pledge of allegiance.




I don’t need to, it’s been well established that his pledge was modified by 5 words over the course of the last 126 years since it was created, but it is still his pledge in form and function, always have been.

Now you don’t get to ask anymore questions of me or anyone else until you start answering the questions posed to you. But since you can’t be bothered to do that there is no point in continuing this conversation.

Yes a socialist created our pledge, sorry you can’t handle that.


Of course you don’t “need to”. And, I didn’t expect you to because the United States Pledge of Allegiance is different than the pledge Bellamy, a socialist, wrote, and his salute which mimicked a salute later adopted by the Nazi’s was also changed.

Get over it. The facts are what they are.




It’s sad that there are so many stupid people in this country that don’t realize that those who are admitted will likely pay for themselves within a few years.

But keep up the fear mongering and stupid whining like this is the first time people from another country have ever turned up in America… You know… The melting pot. :rofl:


If what you said was true, we’d already be benefitting from decades of this but…we’re not? So there is that.


Which doesn’t negate the fact is that bellamy was a socialist and created our pledge no matter how much you want it to


You have no idea of the devastating effects which unbridled immigration has inflicted upon the Citizens of the United States.

Let us take a look at the destructive social and economic consequences in just one county in California inflicted upon its citizens in 1995 when this massive invasion of our borders began to accelerate. CLICK HERE and scroll to page 93 for testimony given by JOAN ZINSER before the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, DECEMBER 13, 1995

Good morning Chairman Smith and other honorable members of the Subcommittee on Immigration and Claims. I am Joan Zinser, Deputy Director of the San Diego County Department of Social Services. I direct the department’s Income Maintenance Bureau, which has responsibility for AFDC, Food Stamps and Medicaid eligibility determinations. I am here today to tell you about the effects of illegal immigration on the County’s assistance programs, and to present information regarding impacts on other county-funded services.

Impacts on San Diego County

In 1993, illegal aliens in San Diego County were estimated to be 7.9% of the population, or a total of almost 220,000 illegal aliens in a county with a population of slightly over 2 1/2 million. A 1993 Calffornia State Senate report estimated that the State, local governments - primarily the County - and schools incurred $304 million in costs to provide services to illegal aliens. These costs were offset by only $60 million in taxes generated by illegal aliens - leaving a net impact of $244 million.

Welfare Costs.

When a child is a US citizen, AFDC can be granted for the child but not the parent, if the parent is an undocumented immigrant. In 1992 there were 6,414 children born to undocumented immigrant parents in San Diego County hospitals. Each year, the illegal alien parents of nearly 2000 "citizen children" apply for and receive AFDC in San Diego County. The cumulative total of these "citizen child" cases continues to rise each year.

Public assistance is intended to support the citizen child, but is paid to the illegal alien parent and is, no doubt, used by the parent to support the entire family. Costs for providing AFDC to "citizen children" cases in San Diego totaled $37 million in 1993 for approximately 5430 AFDC cases.

Additional costs are incurred in Child Welfare Services. Combining costs for Out-of-Home and Family Maintenance services to families of illegal aliens results in an additional cost of $1.7 million.

Medicaid and Other Health-Related- Costs.

Medicaid services are an increasingly large portion of the costs involved in illegal immigration. In 1992, Medicaid paid for 6,414 births illegal alien mothers. Although studies have shown that illegal aliens use fewer Medicaid services than do the age-equivalent members of the general population, significant costs remain. Delivery costs are greater for babies with mothers lacking adequate prenatal care and many medical conditions are treated more cost-effectively in their early stages. Infectious diseases are also a major concern of the County. San Diego County has historically carried large costs because of illegal aliens with these problems. Costs associated with providing emergency and pregnancy related needs to illegal aliens are paid for under "restricted Medi-Cal benefits." During the 1992 calendar year, an estimated $37 million was paid for "restricted Medi-Cal benefits." Other costs, including uncompensated care in hospitals, community clinics, and other health services elevated the 1993 total costs to over $50 million.

Criminal justice.

A recent 90-day pilot project involved having INS Agents present in the county jails to interview those suspected of being an undocumented immigrant. Approximately 20% of the persons booked into the jails during that pilot were identified as being illegal aliens. With annual bookings of approximatel 105,000 persons a year, it is estimated that up to 21,000 were illegal aliens.

According to the San Diego County District Attorney, 8,521 felony crimes were committed by illegal aliens between 1987 and 1992. Illegal aliens commit an estimated 22% of felony crimes committed in the county. The number of misdemeanors committed during the same period in San Diego County by illegal aliens is estimated to be 17,000. In 1993, approximately 15. 1 % of the costs -accrued in dealing with crimes were spent on illegal aliens. Costs for illegal aliens to the legal system totaled $151 million in the County of San Diego for 1993.


Recently, a video of students crossing the border and getting on a school bus in San Diego County in order to receive free education was shown nationwide. Locally, we have worked to make sure that this situation does not recur, but education of the children of illegal aliens is also a significant CDSt. It is estimated that $60 million was spent in San Diego County in 1993 for education of illegal aliens.

And, more recently see:

Illegal aliens cost California billions


”Illegal immigration costs the taxpayers of California — which has the highest number of illegal aliens nationwide — $10.5 billion a year for education, health care and incarceration, according to a study released yesterday.”

Also see: Testimony about "51 Florida Hospitals in trouble" due to illegal aliens expenses:

Jun 10, 2008

”No need to editorialize. Here is a sampling of the sort of facts the politicians and pro-illegal lobby want you to ignore, yet expect you to continue to bear the burden of. Is it any wonder scores of hospitals in border states and elsewhere have shut down or closed their ER units!!!”

Then take a look at Texas Faces Rising Cost For Illegal Immigrant Care

Aug 19, 2010

Texas spent at least $250 million in the past year for medical care and imprisonment of illegal immigrants and other non-citizens.

And how about this: The Fiscal Cost of Unlawful Immigrants and Amnesty to the U.S. Taxpayer

May 6, 2013

”In 2010, the average unlawful immigrant household received around $24,721 in government benefits and services while paying some $10,334 in taxes. This generated an average annual fiscal deficit (benefits received minus taxes paid) of around $14,387 per household. This cost had to be borne by U.S. taxpayers. Amnesty would provide unlawful households with access to over 80 means-tested welfare programs, Obamacare, Social Security, and Medicare. The fiscal deficit for each household would soar.”

And how about the tens of thousands of criminal aliens released into our nation’s population? See: Judicial Watch: 165,900 Criminal Aliens into US Population Through April 2014

Mar 2015

”Nearly 166,000 convicted criminal illegal aliens were released by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) as of April, 2014. This is the analysis of 76 pages of DHS documents obtained by Judicial Watch via Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests. The criminal illegal aliens include rapists, murderers and kidnappers.”

Now, the question is, do you support an America first immigration policy which is merit based and forbids "immigrants" from receiving government cheese for at least five years?


American citizens are sick and tired of being made into tax-slaves to finance the economic needs of millions of poverty stricken, poorly educated, low and unskilled aliens who have invaded America’s borders.


lol - Thanks for proving my point so well buddy.

We have been benefiting from assimilated refugees for decades. Please go buy a clue from somewhere man.


And as you’ve been told it is a shame there are so many dumb people in this country that confuse the illegal immigration problem with the people in these caravans.

But it makes me feel really, really good that you wasted your time typing all that out john. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Thanks for the belly laugh.


You’re arguing with a person who doesn’t think an income tax is a tax on incomes. I ■■■■ you not.



if income tax isnt tax on income

then what is it a tax on

i know you didnt say this

but do you have any idea

every time i feel like i have a grip on something

it slips away around here


The wall of text explaining it to you just got 10 lines higher. Just wait.



i dont like to read a lot


If your born of illegal parents that were in USA illegally your screwed. If they were here documented in a legal process or legal vacation passing in with passports or documented your good. Get your birth certificate (if you don’t have one your parents are not good ones it’s basic basic parents duty to have this simple document) if the did none of the above and here illegal. Go back to where their from and apply for citizenship. The new reality is You must. To build a life then be deported in 2-20 or 49 years from now is other factual reality. So do it correctly or accept one day you get pulled over or pulled aside in a airport and deported,…it’s not fun to live unsecure. Born of Italian immigrant. I love Italy. But know USA is gods country. The way it is with faults. I just want every illegal gone. It’s destroying USA. Our Tax money for retirement and health care will be gone in 15 years if we don’t stop these welfare poor, uneducated people in USA. Their kids are not in school and from parents to kids drain tax money. ITS MY MOMEY FOR MY USA CITIZENS. it’s gone too far USA will join this is uniting. Want all saved money to go to my fellow Americans who need it. I’m sick of paying $1893 out of my Weekly! My Weekly check to taxes to help who!!! Illegals. We need to deport every last one here illegally. And import millions of legal immigrants.


JYou got no clue. We are taxed all workers. I pay in $1800 a week, yes taxes 1800 a week. I know what I’m saying 87,000 a year in taxes I pay then my home my car and gas and food and all I buy I pay taxes again. And every illegal immigrant cost $70,000 NEGATIVE TAX or cost USA tax payers

I would love to help ever human but I want Every American Brother and Sister taken care of first.

Here is the reality. You are 15 to 18 years old is my guess. If we don’t stop this illegal immigration then YOUR generation for sure :100: will not get social security or Medicare at 65 it will be gone. We will have all retired people who have no health care or money. USA citizens. So we do this USA goes broke. We need people working paying taxes and costing or taking less then they pay. Or schools suffer our poor suffer from less tax money as it’s being drained. The cost to keep these illegals out will save Billions over next 20 years. Cost you say. Know reality bud. It’s not all kisses and hugs. Life is hard
If you don’t want any Social Security benefits or health care when you retire then push for illegals because it’s going to run out, the money will end. I don’t care even though I’ll get free healthcare and $4300 a month in Social Security I don’t need it I’m financially set but millions of people do and if you’re one that will need when you retire think about that
do I want to help illegals or one Day want to retire and be able to go to the doctor and have money to eat. If you don’t you better start saving Today for retirement. Know the money comes from somewhere and it cost tax payers decades of supporting poor dumb people. Sorry but it’s true. My pops came here 1924 with $900. He died with $740,000


Bellamy’s salute “mimicked” the Nazi salute… in 1892?