Who shot Ashli Babbitt?

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@TheDoctorIsIn

@Samm

That’s a bald-faced lie.

I’ve been a member of this message board since 2007, and I’ve seen a lot of cop shoots an unarmed person threads.

Someone has made the “he/she should have complied” argument in every single one.

Exhibit A

@Samm

Nearly every unarmed (allegedly) black man who has been shot by cops was not following police instructions at the time. The best way to not be shot by a cop … whether you are black, white, or brown … is to do exactly what they say and don’t make any quick moves contrary to those instructions. Not to justify his murder, but even George Floyd was not following instructions when he was put on the ground and killed.

Not even close to what you have been “told every single time an unarmed black man/woman gets shot.”

You must be joking…

“The best way to not be shot by a cop … whether you are black, white, or brown … is to do exactly what they say and don’t make any quick moves contrary to those instructions.“

AKA “Comply”

The point of that post was about avoiding being shot when directly confronted with a cop pointing his gun at you. It has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the cop’s action if shooting you. In this case, Ashley was not directly confronted, and there is no evidence that she ever heard the cop’s warning that he would shoot if anyone came through the window. There is no comparison between the general statement I made there and the specifics of this case. That’s just Purp being Purp. In other words, trolling.

But just as in my four-yr-old comment, being shot for not complying with a cop’s orders, does not in any way say anything about the legitimacy of the shoot. Being stupid is not a crime no matter what the cop says before he shoots. In a great many of those incidents we were discussing in 2020, the cop was arrested and convicted for his actions. Byrd should be too.

[Guilds]

@Samm

The vast majority of those shoots were justified and the ones that weren’t almost always resulted in legal action against the cops. And you know it.

And very few of those cops were held accountable. And you know it.

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Samm

@Sknyluv

Yes or no. Should she have considered getting shot a possible outcome of her actions that day?

No. And the proof of that is nobody else was shot.

This is wild to me. If someone in that situation isn’t like “Oh ■■■■ , I might get shot if I do this!”, they are morons with a death wish.

Bring a moron is not a crime, let alone a capital crime. But cops aren’t supposed to be morons, so even morons should not expect them to act like morons. Right?

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Samm

We all should consider that cops ought to be well trained and know the law, shouldn’t we?

We should also do what cops say and not make any quick moves.

Can you prove that she heard him when he said he would (unjustifiablely so) shoot the first person to come through the window? Did she come through the window before she was shot?

[Sknyluv]

@PurpnGold

@Samm

The context of my post that you dredged up from another thread has nothing to do with the events of January 6th.

Do you think she should have complied? Yes or no?

There’s no evidence that she heard him … or something.

[Samm]

@Supreme_War_Pig

But it wasn’t a BLM protest, and it wasn’t a peaceful assembly. Babbitt was a rioter, in a riot. You don’t get to drape her in The Constitution.

What lethal threat did the rioters pose? As far as I can tell, there is no statute saying lethal force is justified against participants in a riot simply because some rioters are being violent. Can you?

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

The point of that post was about avoiding being shot when directly confronted with a cop pointing his gun at you.

Like Babbitt was

@Samm

In this case, Ashley was not directly confronted

I mean a gun pointed at you is pretty damn confrontational

@Samm

and there is no evidence that she ever heard the cop’s warning that he would shoot if anyone came through the window.

I believe Other people around her heard…

@Samm

There is no comparison between the general statement I made there and the specifics of this case. That’s just Purp being Purp. In other words, trolling.

No, you are just attempting to gaslight something that you clearly said. I brought the evidence

[Sknyluv]

@Samm

Can you prove that she heard him when he said he would (unjustifiablely so) shoot the first person to come though the window?

My dude. Is this for real?

[e7alr]

That wasn’t from my military training, it was from my Military Police Training for how to escalate force and assume control of a situation. Specifically how to break the mob mentality influence. Members of a mob think they are invisible as individuals, caught up in the moment. To break the mob mentality, you have to make them come back to realizing that at this instant in time, you are focused on them alone and the mob won’t save them.

[Rodeo]

The next time a criminal is shot by a cop while resisting arrest and this forums lib’s go ballistic with “they should have let him go and caught him later resisting shouldn’t be a death sentence…”

I want you all to remember this thread.

[e7alr]

Armed, or unarmed, it was their job to hold that line. That officer who fired the shot could have stepped out into prominent view, with his weapon drawn in a position backing up the three outside the door. That would have been an escalation of force for the mob to see and reflect on.

[e7alr]

This has been a fairly good discussion today. Some of it has veered off into vague assertions about general incidents, but it has mostly been a solid exchange of points of view about this specific shooting, with actual arguments made. Hopefully more discussions can go like today’s.

[Samm]

@Guilds

@e7alr

He could have simply walked up and grabbed a hand full of her hair with one hand and pressed the gun against her temple

You have military training…not everyone is a bad ass like you.

He was a well-trained policeman with years of experience who had achieved the rank of Lieutenant. Maybe he wasn’t a bad ass, but he should have been capable of handling the situation without shooting someone. Particularly as he had back up a few feet away at the other end of the hallway and on the other side of the doors in the stairway.

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

@Samm

The context of my post that you dredged up from another thread has nothing to do with the events of January 6th.

Do you think she should have complied? Yes or no?

Complied with what? Did she receive a direct command from Byrd? Yes or no?

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

The context of my post that you dredged up from another thread has nothing to do with the events of January 6th.

Do you think she should have complied? Yes or no?

Complied with what? Did she receive a direct command from Byrd? Yes or no?

Yes she did and gun pointed at her.

Should she have complied? Yes or no?

[Samm]

@Guilds

@Samm

The vast majority of those shoots were justified and the ones that weren’t almost always resulted in legal action against the cops. And you know it.

And very few of those cops were held accountable. And you know it.

No I don’t know it. And neither do you. The vast majority of such police shootings are justified. Only a handful get our attention, and in those where the shooting is determined to be unjustified, the police officer involved is charged. And you know it.

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

@Samm

The point of that post was about avoiding being shot when directly confronted with a cop pointing his gun at you.

Like Babbitt was

@Samm

In this case, Ashley was not directly confronted

I mean a gun pointed at you is pretty damn confrontational

@Samm

and there is no evidence that she ever heard the cop’s warning that he would shoot if anyone came through the window.

I believe Other people around her heard…

@Samm

There is no comparison between the general statement I made there and the specifics of this case. That’s just Purp being Purp. In other words, trolling.

No, you are just attempting to gaslight something that you clearly said. I brought the evidence

Your facts are wrong. Babbitt was not personally confronted. Byrd’s gun was not pointed at her until he fired. Other people around (or so you say) are not Babbitt.

The only gaslightng is coming from you.

[Samm]

@Sknyluv

@Samm

Can you prove that she heard him when he said he would (unjustifiablely so) shoot the first person to come through the window?

My dude. Is this for real?

Absolutely.

[Samm]

@PurpnGold

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

The context of my post that you dredged up from another thread has nothing to do with the events of January 6th.

Do you think she should have complied? Yes or no?

Complied with what? Did she receive a direct command from Byrd? Yes or no?

Yes she did and gun pointed at her.

Should she have complied? Yes or no?

He did not have the gun pointed at anyone until her head came through the opening and he shot her.

Complied with what? By his own statement all he said was “I will shoot the first person who comes in here.” That is not an order, it’s a threat, and there is no evidence that she heard it.

[PurpnGold]

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

@PurpnGold

@Samm

The context of my post that you dredged up from another thread has nothing to do with the events of January 6th.

Do you think she should have complied? Yes or no?

Complied with what? Did she receive a direct command from Byrd? Yes or no?

Yes she did and gun pointed at her.

Should she have complied? Yes or no?

He did not have the gun pointed at anyone until her head came through the opening and he shot her.

Complied with what? By his own statement all he said was “I will shoot the first person who comes in here.” That is not an order, it’s a threat, and there is no evidence that she heard it.

Tsk tsk…

'She was posing a threat' — Capitol officer Michael Byrd, who shot pro-Trump...

“I had been yelling and screaming as loud as I was, ‘Please stop, get back, get back,’" Byrd told NBC Nightly News’ Lester Holt in an interview that aired Thursday evening.“

Should she have complied?