Which Bible Do You Like?

[ImRightYoureWrong]

Come on man, you’re talking to a brick wall

[ImRightYoureWrong]

@Borgia_dude

Slavery in the Bible - RationalWiki

Good article.

This one Iis similar to my mortgage contract:

Exodus 21:20-21 (NASB): 20If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

My loan officer sometimes does that to me.

[Borgia_dude]

@ImRightYoureWrong

@Borgia_dude

Slavery in the Bible - RationalWiki

Good article.

This one Iis similar to my mortgage contract:

Exodus 21:20-21 (NASB): 20If a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod and he dies at his hand, he shall be punished. 21If, however, he survives a day or two, no vengeance shall be taken; for he is his property.

My loan officer sometimes does that to me.

I think Meri would say that this passage is written by man of the time and Does not represent God’s will.

[ImRightYoureWrong]

Of course, because its morally reprehensible. Which means strip it out and cherry pick the good parts.

But to do so she’d have to admit slavery in Biblical times was morally reprehensible and not just a mortgage

[Meriweather]

@Borgia_dude

Meri, I understand where you are and I can agree that some aspects of slavery may not seem so contemptible through the lense of the ancient world. But some are contemptible and that includes some of the rules set up by God himself. God could have set the same rules you find least objectionable up for all people and not made Hebrew males the only ones subject to the “nicer” structures of slavery.

You accuse others of not seeing through history’s lense but they are looking at all of slavery, not just the portions you find acceptable for the time.

So why didn’t God make slavery rules for the Hebrew apply to females and non-Hebrew males? If your argument for slavery rests on how it wasn’t so bad (for the times) then why accept the harsher rules that you don’t seem to like? Or do you think they (slavery for life) were reasonable for the time?

For the life of me, I can’t imagine why what I think has anything to do with what was happening in Biblical times. What I see as happening is that God gave us Ten Commandments and humans then–just as we do today with our Constitution–continued to add to the original under the guise of, God/Constitution means…

You truly seem to believe that God instituted slavery. I don’t believe He did. My study of the same passages brings me to a conclusion that there were some truly good people in that day who were doing their best to align their reality to the rule of God. I see other places, people being what they are, who were doing their best to align the reality for their own personal benefit.

The one you have not yet mentioned that always jumps first and foremost to my mind is that a father was permitted to sell his children. This gave the father the right to sell his tender aged daughter to someone to be used as a concubine. Can anyone not help but feel outrage at such a thing, and know in their hearts this is not of God?

But…how do we judge the man who comes from abject poverty, whose truly loves his daughter, who has lived in abject poverty all of her life, has always known hunger…and he sees a chance for her and her children to live without hunger constantly gnawing at their innards? I’m not going to judge that, I feel it is best left to God.

[ImRightYoureWrong]

Ya we get it. You’re only looking at the good parts of “hebrew” slavery and avoiding making any judgements of God’s complete lack of guidance on the issue, cause hey people still murder right?

[ImRightYoureWrong]

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 21:7-11 - New Living Translation

A lifetime of slaver, er “indentured servitude” for the daughter. Who am I to judge?

[ImRightYoureWrong]

@Meriweather

But…how do we judge the man who comes from abject poverty, whose truly loves his daughter, who has lived in abject poverty all of her life, has always known hunger…and he sees a chance for her and her children to live without hunger constantly gnawing at their innards? I’m not going to judge that, I feel it is best left to God.

That’s why we instituted welfare and social safety nets in society instead of, you know, SLAVERY. Ironically, these are items the Christian right rejects - but you’ll find them defending life long indentured servitude!

Absolutely bizarre

[Borgia_dude]

@ImRightYoureWrong

@Meriweather

But…how do we judge the man who comes from abject poverty, whose truly loves his daughter, who has lived in abject poverty all of her life, has always known hunger…and he sees a chance for her and her children to live without hunger constantly gnawing at their innards? I’m not going to judge that, I feel it is best left to God.

That’s why we instituted welfare and social safety nets in society instead of, you know, SLAVERY. Ironically, these are items the Christian right rejects - but you’ll find them defending life long indentured servitude!

Absolutely bizarre

Life-long indentured servitude for the slavery and all of her descendants.

Again, I am sympathetic to Meri’s position. She doesn’t want to judge ancient cultures with our understanding today. Essentially she is saying that slavery solved some problems at the time.

I wonder if we should give that opportunity to poor parents today. The problem of poverty still exists, especially in very poor African countries. After all, a father looking at his daughter facing a lifetime of hardship can easily be solved by selling that daughter. Should the US be standing against slavery in these very poor countries? Perhaps not if we trust that God let that solution stand in the ancient world.

[Meriweather]

@Borgia_dude

Should the US be standing against slavery in these very poor countries?

The US should stand against slavery and be an example to all. Interfere in other countries? No.

[ImRightYoureWrong]

@Borgia_dude

Again, I am sympathetic to Meri’s position. She doesn’t want to judge ancient cultures with our understanding today. Essentially she is saying that slavery solved some problems at the time.

I mean, ya, but it begs the question why a loving God wouldnt give a bit more guidance, 10 commandments and all

[Borgia_dude]

@Meriweather

@Borgia_dude

Should the US be standing against slavery in these very poor countries?

The US should stand against slavery and be an example to all. Interfere in other countries? No.

Ok. But why should we stand against slavery in other countries. You just provided an example of a father’s love for his daughter and his concern about her future in extreme poverty being a reasonable impetus to sell her into slavery.

The problem hasn’t changed, maybe the God sanctioned solution is still viable today?

[reflechissez]

@ImRightYoureWrong

@Borgia_dude

Again, I am sympathetic to Meri’s position. She doesn’t want to judge ancient cultures with our understanding today. Essentially she is saying that slavery solved some problems at the time.

I mean, ya, but it begs the question why a loving God wouldnt give a bit more guidance, 10 commandments and all

It’s not like an 11th commandment would have been onerous.

[ImRightYoureWrong]

@reflechissez

It’s not like an 11th commandment would have been onerous.

10 just sounds so much more complete

Although God would have been a good blog title creator

“The Top 10 Best Commandments You Should Live By”

[Borgia_dude]

@reflechissez

@ImRightYoureWrong

@Borgia_dude

Again, I am sympathetic to Meri’s position. She doesn’t want to judge ancient cultures with our understanding today. Essentially she is saying that slavery solved some problems at the time.

I mean, ya, but it begs the question why a loving God wouldnt give a bit more guidance, 10 commandments and all

It’s not like an 11th commandment would have been onerous.

I heard there were originally 15.

[ImRightYoureWrong]

Lol it’s been awhile since I’ve seen that

[Meriweather]

@Borgia_dude

Ok. But why should we stand against slavery in other countries. You just provided an example of a father’s love for his daughter and his concern about her future in extreme poverty being a reasonable impetus to sell her into slavery.

The problem hasn’t changed, maybe the God sanctioned solution is still viable today?

Please keep with what I say. I said that was for God to judge; I said nothing about it being a reasonable impetus to sell her.

Some time ago, someone made an observation that has stuck with me: People are not beat into oppression, as much as they are seduced into oppression. Everyone should also be aware that evil finds a way through any law or well-intended purpose. (For example, can you say Insurance Fraud.)

Once something creates more problems than it solves, and opens the way for uncontrollable abuse, then it must be shut down. Slavery, abortion, insurance (if it comes to that) are great examples. Another great one is the welfare system. Rome tried it and eventually fell because of it. Think about it. Why don’t people like to accept charity? Isn’t it because they don’t want to be ‘beholden’ to someone. They recognize that is what happens when accepting something not earned. So…a government seduces…tell the people welfare is not charity, it is a “right”. But the people feel beholden all the same to the people who seduced them with this “right” and will vote to keep them in power. (While I used welfare as an example it can be said about anything the government says it bestows, and gun rights can be easily qualify as another example.) It is why I am such a big advocate for as little government as possible. And, currently, we are again growing a big one. I’m passionately against that.

What I have done with slavery in the Bible was to look back and investigate why the people of the time thought it was a good idea, what problems was it intended to solve or resolve? What loopholes did they miss? Scholars can point out to us how the laws on slavery changed as time went on, even in the Biblical era.

It fits my style of study: What were the good intentions? What were the unintended consequences? What loopholes opened up for those who wished to work the system for their own benefit and greed?

[JayJay]

Hmm…what’s the way we can tell which parts of the Law were God inspired and which were human-added?

[reflechissez]

@Meriweather

@Borgia_dude

Ok. But why should we stand against slavery in other countries. You just provided an example of a father’s love for his daughter and his concern about her future in extreme poverty being a reasonable impetus to sell her into slavery.

The problem hasn’t changed, maybe the God sanctioned solution is still viable today?

Please keep with what I say. I said that was for God to judge; I said nothing about it being a reasonable impetus to sell her.

Some time ago, someone made an observation that has stuck with me: People are not beat into oppression, as much as they are seduced into oppression. Everyone should also be aware that evil finds a way through any law or well-intended purpose. (For example, can you say Insurance Fraud.)

Once something creates more problems than it solves, and opens the way for uncontrollable abuse, then it must be shut down. Slavery, abortion, insurance (if it comes to that) are great examples. Another great one is the welfare system. Rome tried it and eventually fell because of it. Think about it. Why don’t people like to accept charity? Isn’t it because they don’t want to be ‘beholden’ to someone. They recognize that is what happens when accepting something not earned. So…a government seduces…tell the people welfare is not charity, it is a “right”. But the people feel beholden all the same to the people who seduced them with this “right” and will vote to keep them in power. (While I used welfare as an example it can be said about anything the government says it bestows, and gun rights can be easily qualify as another example.) It is why I am such a big advocate for as little government as possible. And, currently, we are again growing a big one. I’m passionately against that.

What I have done with slavery in the Bible was to look back and investigate why the people of the time thought it was a good idea, what problems was it intended to solve or resolve? What loopholes did they miss? Scholars can point out to us how the laws on slavery changed as time went on, even in the Biblical era.

It fits my style of study: What were the good intentions? What were the unintended consequences? What loopholes opened up for those who wished to work the system for their own benefit and greed?

This is absurd.

[ImRightYoureWrong]

@Meriweather

What I have done with slavery in the Bible was to look back and investigate why the people of the time thought it was a good idea, what problems was it intended to solve or resolve? What loopholes did they miss? Scholars can point out to us how the laws on slavery changed as time went on, even in the Biblical era.

Yes we are well aware of it, now let’s move beyond your thoughts and consider what others are saying.