Which Bible Do You Like?

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T11:15:21.447Z

Paul_Thomson:

Bible believers have an unchanging external yardstick by which to measure the morality of their actions. What is your external standard?

No they dont. They have books written by man.

I dont need a book to tell me what’s right or wrong. I’m not a robot following orders and I take responsibility for my own actions. You’re not a moral person if you’re just following orders from a book.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T11:16:02.398Z

Paul_Thomson:

When was I asked to do that?

So you cant?

Paul_Thomson · 2019-06-02T11:57:38.136Z

Clearly, biblical morality is on the same level then as your cobbled together morality. In other words, there is no basis upon which you can logically invalidate biblical morality. Your feelings are the arbiter.

Paul_Thomson · 2019-06-02T12:01:48.317Z

ImRightYoureWrong:

You’re not a moral person if you’re just following orders from a book.

You don’t have a clue about the worldview you oppose if you think it entails just following orders from a book. You can have a ruler and not just rule lines.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T12:03:12.120Z

Paul_Thomson:

In other words, there is no basis upon which you can logically invalidate biblical morality. Your feelings are the arbiter.

Lmao, you need me to break down logically why I think slavery is wrong?

And yes, morality is subjective as I’ve been saying this entire thread. My feelings are the arbiter. I am responsible for my morals and what I do about them. I’m a big boy. I dont need an ancient book to tell me what’s right or wrong.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T12:04:48.995Z

Paul_Thomson:

You don’t have a clue about the worldview you oppose if you think it entails just following orders from a book. You can have a ruler and not just rule lines.

If you arent just following what the Bible says then what’s the point? It almost sounds like you subjectively agree with the book. A book written by man, by the way. Theres plenty of books written by man you can draw from. Yet, you pick the bible.

What exactly is your point here? Seems like you never have one. Is this just some long winded way of you defending biblical slavery?

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T12:07:29.153Z

Paul_Thomson:

In other words, there is no basis upon which you can logically invalidate biblical morality.

And theres no purely logical basis on which you can validate biblical morality. So what?

Blackwolf · 2019-06-02T12:16:32.091Z

MidwestIndy:

Water into wine, resurrections, miracles, one fish to feed how many, parting of the seas, humans as a whole came from just two individuals? Come one now.

My favorite was always that talking donkey. No snark intended there, either.

Paul_Thomson · 2019-06-02T13:25:30.500Z

I can apply it to circumstances that arise in my life and see how it works out. And compare that to people who do not apply it to theirs and my own experience when I fail to apply it to mine. That’s logical.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T13:27:17.709Z

Oh ok. Biblical slavery doesnt “work for me”. Therefore its invalid.

Plus, “biblical” morality like loving other people and not raping/murdering isnt “biblical”. Christians didnt invent those.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T13:28:21.497Z

Paul_Thomson:

see how it works out

For you, subjectively. I’m sure things “work out” for Muslims in the ME too when they behead non believers

Paul_Thomson · 2019-06-02T13:35:08.256Z

It may be that I don’t have a point you are willing to consider. The point of taking the Bible seriously is to meet the Maker and experience life, this life, in his company. We may possess advice and encouragements by a friend in a written form as objective documents that reveal aspects of the friend and their principles. But we don’t spend our time only reading their letters and following their written advice. We reason from that advice to find appropriate applications to new situations and enjoy quality time with the friend themselves as we can.

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T14:13:25.610Z

Ok…and?

People who believe in the bible apply stuff to their life and share their worldviews with others.

So…?

Borgia_dude · 2019-06-02T14:52:04.675Z

Paul_Thomson:

Bible believers have an unchanging external yardstick by which to measure the morality of their actions.

They do? Denominations all teach different moral standards. If you want to know what’s wrong with Catholicism, ask a Lutheran. If you want to know what’s wrong with Lutheranism, ask a Methodist. If you want to know what’s wrong with Methodists, Baptists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Calvinist, Hyper-Calvinists, Pentecostal, Anglican, Adventists or the First Baptist Church of Memphis you can ask the Second Baptist Church of Memphis.

Paul_Thomson · 2019-06-02T15:50:35.620Z

We have the majority texts of the Old and New Testaments. What others choose to do with those does not stop the texts themselves from being objective. What do you have that is unchanging and authoritative for you in terms of morals and truth?

Borgia_dude · 2019-06-02T15:52:58.052Z

Paul_Thomson:

We have the majority texts of the Old and New Testaments. What others choose to do with those does not stop the texts themselves from being objective. What do you have that is unchanging and authoritative for you in terms of morals and truth?

What good are the texts if they can be interpreted so differently?

Borgia_dude · 2019-06-02T16:11:43.598Z

Paul, let me ask. Is something morally good because it is commanded by God or is it intrinsically a moral good?

ImRightYoureWrong · 2019-06-02T16:15:08.172Z

Paul_Thomson:

What others choose to do with those does not stop the texts themselves from being objective. What do you have that is unchanging and authoritative for you in terms of morals and truth?

Ya you have texts written by man. I can write stuff down too. If I write my morals on a piece of paper, are my morals now objective?

LeroyBrown · 2019-06-03T08:51:06.736Z

Borgia_dude:

Does it? It talks about hospitality for escaped slaves. What about slaves that cannot escape?

And in that same chapter of Deuteronomy you have bastards and all generations of their progeny being denied by God. Is that something you similarly subscribe to?

That same chapter also allows people to eat their full of other people’s crops. Is that something you similarly subscribe to?

Leviticus 25:44-46 King James Version (KJV)

44 Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen and bondmaids.

45 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.

46 And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever : but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one over another with rigour.

As you’re bandying about scripture then you are aware that being a gentile, Paul is not required to abide by these laws?

Paul_Thomson · 2019-06-04T17:28:27.883Z

What good is listening to another human being speaking, when it is so easy to misunderstand what they are trying to say? What they are saying can be the beginning of a conversation where we can clarify with the speaker what they really think.

Likewise, scriptural statements are starting points for conversations with God, where we work out what He was trying to say, if we are open-minded. But just as in human-human dialogue, where we can be stubborn and resistant to understanding what the other person is saying, so also in nutting things out with God.

God is not looking primarily for each of us to instantaneously download marching orders and then head off and do as we are told. He is more interested in developing a relationship with his children, which means presenting things in a way that we need to keep coming back to him for clarification. Ambiguity is not necessarily a bad thing.