Problem here is for many talking about faith, they do not really possess real faith. Morals and values as well as obedience are matters of convenience.
For example Abraham the father of all having faith as good as offered up Issac when asked.
Many of these folks defended torturing people and said they would do it to themselves even though the bible says love your enemies and pray for those persecuting you.
If you want my take on subjective vs objective think about it in this general way.
Our animal cousins living in and dealing with the world we live in is a completely objective exchange between life and environment.
The higher intellect of human beings share this inevitability but also have the ability with our higher intellects and the assistance of mind to realize âsubjectiveâ ideals and then bring these to deals into existence. In other words âcreate somethingâ.
Again, itâs mind over matter, a process we share with our creator.
Our animal natureâs remain however and can be an obstacle and selfishness can lead to less than desirable ideals being created - potential evil being brought into existence in other words.
I am reminded of Paul on the road to Damascus. He was not pursuing God in any way yet God saw fit to perform a miracle, talking to him directly, converting Paul on the spot.
I am Paul.
[quote]
Offhand, I cannot think of a single instance when pursuit of a miracle led to an encounter with God. [/quote]
That might be telling you something.
Are all low probability events deemed miracles? Is every cancer that goes into remission a miracle from the divine? How do you differentiate between a miracle and just lucky?
You make my point. Paul had faith, he believed in God and followed the Jewish faith. He believed those who became known as Christians were disrupting/corrupting the Jewish faith, so he persecuted them. Then, the God in whom he believed asked him, âWhy are you persecuting me?â
No, not every cancer that goes into remission is a miracle. Some are prompted through medical treatment. Some are spontaneous. Some do seem to be miraculous, or a where prayer seemed to have played a part. Healing of spirit or mind can lead to healing in the body.
As far as telling the differenceâŚwhat is the importance behind being able to distinguish the difference?
Exactly. He did not believe in Christ and was actively persecuting his followers. He was not questioning whether he should be or not. Then God performed a miracle to correct his beliefs.
Yawn. The discussion was not about what EVERY denomination teaches. I made the point of what a few teach, and I know this because of what a few in these denomination insist is true. If you want to talk about what your denomination teaches, feel free to enter into the discussion here. Perhaps you are from one who believes that once they accept Christ as savior, it is grace, not their own motivations, that prompt them to do good. Meanwhile, what I point out about a few denominations is not implying that this is your denomination, many denominations, etc. It is simply pointing out the wide range between my beliefs and beliefs of some other Christians. Moving on.
By scientists?!? You do remember I teach science? Evidence is physical matter or something that can repeated in a lab with the same or very similar results. Evidence, is some way, has to be able to be measured and able to be verified with one or more of the five senses.
JayJay didnt say that you said that about EVERY denomination. Yawn. You should slow down and listen/read what other people have to say sometime. It seems like you are only here to preach your views. Maybe ask some questions.