Where did the Monsters we see in the Fossil Record Come from?

Problem here is for many talking about faith, they do not really possess real faith. Morals and values as well as obedience are matters of convenience.

For example Abraham the father of all having faith as good as offered up Issac when asked.

Many of these folks defended torturing people and said they would do it to themselves even though the bible says love your enemies and pray for those persecuting you.

If you want my take on subjective vs objective think about it in this general way.
Our animal cousins living in and dealing with the world we live in is a completely objective exchange between life and environment.
The higher intellect of human beings share this inevitability but also have the ability with our higher intellects and the assistance of mind to realize “subjective” ideals and then bring these to deals into existence. In other words “create something”.
Again, it’s mind over matter, a process we share with our creator.
Our animal nature’s remain however and can be an obstacle and selfishness can lead to less than desirable ideals being created - potential evil being brought into existence in other words.

I am reminded of Paul on the road to Damascus. He was not pursuing God in any way yet God saw fit to perform a miracle, talking to him directly, converting Paul on the spot.

I am Paul.

[quote]
Offhand, I cannot think of a single instance when pursuit of a miracle led to an encounter with God. [/quote]
That might be telling you something.

Are all low probability events deemed miracles? Is every cancer that goes into remission a miracle from the divine? How do you differentiate between a miracle and just lucky?

I agree. Verifying some non-physical entity that plays cosmic hide and seek is difficult.

You make my point. Paul had faith, he believed in God and followed the Jewish faith. He believed those who became known as Christians were disrupting/corrupting the Jewish faith, so he persecuted them. Then, the God in whom he believed asked him, “Why are you persecuting me?”

No, not every cancer that goes into remission is a miracle. Some are prompted through medical treatment. Some are spontaneous. Some do seem to be miraculous, or a where prayer seemed to have played a part. Healing of spirit or mind can lead to healing in the body.

As far as telling the difference…what is the importance behind being able to distinguish the difference?

You are so far off what other denominations teach, it’s not even funny.

You actually believe those denominations teach to wait for death to enjoy any of the blessings of salvation?

Not what I said. There are some who teach “saved” as having a guaranteed in place in heaven once they accept Christ as savior.

It is most definitely what you implied since you then went on to talk about how “waiting for death made no sense”.

As if other denominations have nothing to offer believers in this life.

You said nothing about the “guarantee”.

It’s like Peter pan. Children stories. Just beliieeevveee

All you have to do is close your eyes and just believe! Say it 3 times beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Beetlejuice! Then poof!! Theres God

Exactly. He did not believe in Christ and was actively persecuting his followers. He was not questioning whether he should be or not. Then God performed a miracle to correct his beliefs.

Yawn. The discussion was not about what EVERY denomination teaches. I made the point of what a few teach, and I know this because of what a few in these denomination insist is true. If you want to talk about what your denomination teaches, feel free to enter into the discussion here. Perhaps you are from one who believes that once they accept Christ as savior, it is grace, not their own motivations, that prompt them to do good. Meanwhile, what I point out about a few denominations is not implying that this is your denomination, many denominations, etc. It is simply pointing out the wide range between my beliefs and beliefs of some other Christians. Moving on.

You’re the one claiming God performs miracles. How do you know they are “miracles” and not just remissions from natural probability?

Or a brain hiccup. Or imagination. Or a mistake, honest or otherwise. The point is that some don’t believe in miracles, and some do. So what?

The existence of miraculous events (resurrection for example) are commonly used as evidence for the divine.

Hmmmm. Two out of three of those maybe. I’m certain neither Jews nor Muslims will say Jesus is God

By scientists?!? You do remember I teach science? Evidence is physical matter or something that can repeated in a lab with the same or very similar results. Evidence, is some way, has to be able to be measured and able to be verified with one or more of the five senses.

JayJay didnt say that you said that about EVERY denomination. Yawn. You should slow down and listen/read what other people have to say sometime. It seems like you are only here to preach your views. Maybe ask some questions.

I blame Aviax from The Wanderers.