Where are we, prophetically speaking?

The many views of any word is why I find etymology (the study of words) fascinating. ‘Prophecy’ is defined as the function of a prophet, and a prophet is defined as, ‘Someone who speaks for God.’

This is much different from the secondary definition of prophecy, which is ‘Foretelling the future.’

Jesus spoke for God. He tells us that we are the salt of the earth. He taught us to pray that God’s will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Is it God’s will to destroy heaven? If it is not, then why has mankind, well before Christ, talking about end times?

Jesus spoke of God’s will being done, not God’s destruction pouring down upon us. He spoke of goodness spreading throughout the land just as yeast spreads through dough. We, all populations, are the salt of the earth, our goodness can spread throughout the planet. We can do God’s will here, just as it is done in heaven. And this starts with one individual at a time: An atheist, a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a pagan, etc.

The Way of Jesus–following the will of God–is the way of God. The Way and The Will of God does not result in destruction of the planet, but in life for all the Earth. So, let’s get started (after all, we have been redeemed) and stop looking for its destruction.

Prophecy: The function of a prophet which is one who speaks the words of God.

IMO the significant time stamp is the appearance of two prophets who prophesy for 3 1/2 years, who are slain, left in the street for three days, are resurrected before the eyes of all. Until then, we can have no scriptural confirmation of how far away the Lord’s return is.

I get the dual nature of the word prophecy. God can use anyone he chooses to speak for him, so our clergy today can be considered as prophets. But throughout the Bible, there are verses that reference future events. For example, in Isaiah 66:22 God says “For as the new heavens and the new Earth, which I will make…” This is a reference to a future event. Revelation, of course, as well as many books are primarily devoted to future events. Jesus did tell his Apostles that he would return. True, many of the future events have happened and now are in OUR past, but at the time they were written, they were future events. So if God revealed future events to Daniel for example, why would he not reveal future events yet to come even for us in the 21st century?

Many believe those two witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah. These two did not die, but were taken directly to heaven. This is my belief, though some believe Moses will be one of them. The Seventh Day Adventists believe the two witnesses are not People at all but the Old and New Testaments… And then the question is when do these two witnesses appear? Before, during or after the Rapture and tribulation? I believe after the Rapture.

Is this a future event or an ongoing event?

If we are living on a “new” Earth, I sure wouldn’t want to know what the old Earth was like. I tend to believe that God is wanting to restore what we lost in Eden. IOW, an absolutely perfect place with no pain or death. We certainly aren’t there, and yet if God makes it, how could it be less than perfect?

Think about this. What would you (not to mention millions of the rest of us) do in this new Eden? Would we bring our microwaves, computers, vacuums, and lawnmowers? Would we live in houses or under a tree? Perhaps in a tree? Would we use money? Would we have governing laws and leaders? Would we need to be educated?

Didn’t turn out perfect. Not because of what he did, but because if what we did.

Years ago, I had a guy work for me who was working on a degree in archaeology. We discussed eternal life and he said he wouldn’t want to live for ever because he thought it would be boring. He believer it was the finite nature of our life which made us appreciate it all the more. I believe just the opposite. It is our finite life and human limitations which are boring.

I think we, as humans, just can’t think outside the box and imagine anything beyond the existence of our physical mortal life as perceived by our five senses.

Imagine if we’re not confined to earth…
Imagine a perfect mind with an unlimited amount of things to learn…
Imagine being able to talk to great people of the past…

I don’t think mundane things like microwaves and vacuum cleaners will even enter our minds, let alone have to occupy our time. Will we even need to eat? If so, will we not be able to pluck what we want off the trees like Adam and Eve? Will dirt have to be cleaned off our bodies or from our houses? Perhaps, but the joy will be being with the Lord. We will not have the same attitudes towards things we do now.

This speaks of heaven, a spiritual existence, not of a physical existence here on earth. One theory is that the original Eden was a garden just outside the Gates of Heaven. God’s garden, and also a gateway to a physical existence. We could have stayed in Eden and not known evil, or we could choose to know both good and evil–i.e. have a physical existence where we must work for food, where childbirth is painful, etc.

There is a great difference between an eternity with no physical body for which to care, so no ground to till, or weeds to pull–and a spiritual existence which is a freedom we can barely imagine.

There is also some thought about Jesus warning about war coming into Jerusalem from the Romans and the Temple being destroyed–and his thoughts on end times. We all understand that it is possible for the Earth to be hit by asteroids. This, indeed, might be described as stars falling from the sky and the resulting dust-up would result in the darkening of the sun and moon. It could also happen during quite normal times where people are giving birth, marrying, and going to work.

These are just random thoughts. Personally, I do not give much (if any) credence to nineteenth century theories where part of the population disappears off the planet and into heaven.

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I think it is a matter of perspective. There have been times much more challenging than this throughout the ages.

Simma down. No need to be so defensive about millennial slacking. :grin:

The descriptions of heaven paint a picture which leads me to believe that we have a physical body in Heaven, and Hell even more so. The story of Lazarus says the rich man was in torment in the fire. Can spirit bodies feel pain? If they are physical in Hell, why not Heaven? Revelation says death and Hell are cast into the lake of fire. Why, if pain can not be felt?

There are some phenomenon that could bring about some of the events described in scripture. The SDA Church believes the stars falling happened in 1833. The Leonid meteor shower in November of that year produced and estimated 72,000 meteors per hour! Volcanic eruptions have blotted out the sun. Certain conditions can turn the moon red…

It isn’t just the physical things though that scripture describes if the end times. There are things described about the condition of society, things which allude to technological advances that have only fairly recently become possible, and of course, events like the coming of the Anti-Christ and armegeddon.

If these aren’t real events, why are they in scripture at all? You haven’t really said what you believe BTW about Jesus’ promise to return…

This is the part of the story that always amazes me.

God creates the angels who live with him in bliss in heaven…Satan rebels.

God creates humans and they live in bliss in Eden…then humans rebel.

But somehow Christians God will create a new heaven and new earth where all will live in bliss…and no one will rebel.

Wherever there was paradise, there was rebellion.

But not this time…honest.

Do you by chance have book you could recommend that surveys these religions? I watched a documentary on Buddhism recently and was embarrassed to find how little I know and how much I had misunderstood about that faith.

Apparently next time will be better because we won’t have free will. We will just be completely blissed out robots for eternity. Doesn’t that sound wonderful?

I believe we will have a glorified body, and that is fun to wonder about. After the resurrection, I believe Jesus had a glorified body. He broke bread; he built a fire; he entered locked rooms. He ascended into heaven. His wounds still showed, but they didn’t appear to cause him any discomfort.

The Rich Man is an interesting study. He did not call for the flames to be doused, or salve for his skin. He thirsted, and he wanted even the tiniest drop of water. It calls to mind Jesus and the woman at the well, where Jesus promised living water so she would not thirst. What was the Rich Man thirsting after?

There are many things we cannot know, and this thread covers many. :slight_smile:

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If there were ever signs that the end was imminent, they occurred in the 1300s. What we and the world are going through now is a piece of cake compared to then. Great Leonid meteor showers have made historic note since the 900s. While 1833 was indeed spectacular (Abe Lincoln once commented on them) there have been a few just as spectacular since then. While particles may dust the Earth, they have little impact.

Yes, little blockages of the sun have occurred throughout time, which is why I think Jesus was probably indicating something stronger than those.

There is a huge difference between apocalyptic literature and a prophet speaking for God. Apocalyptic literature is a style of writing and it involves a great deal of symbolism.