Where are we, prophetically speaking?

SixFoot · 2021-04-04T19:11:44.079Z

We all have a relationship with the Creator, whether we like it or even want to admit it. We are all expressions of a living Universe (God). Being an active part of that relationship is far more effective than being hopeful in something external. IMO of course.

rp5x5 · 2021-04-04T20:02:02.193Z

This thread reminds me of this Song.

Konssurvative1 · 2021-04-04T20:57:01.815Z

It makes sense…I’m thinking straight up Christ…not God. Christ living, dying and rising again gives us hope and optimism for our own lives

SixFoot · 2021-04-05T00:26:55.071Z

Christ understood what He was. The good news is, we are too, even if we don’t understand it, which makes it the best news.

Konssurvative1 · 2021-04-05T01:16:29.061Z

Yeah…I agree. SIX…I HOPE you had a good Easter.

Piper · 2021-04-05T15:38:49.931Z

Lbo-Rv10:

“…endowed by our Creator…” & “In God we trust” vs. “We are not a Christian nation”

What does “A Christian nation” even mean considering Scripture? 71% of Russians say they are Christian. Africa’s population has many that claim to be Christian. Rwanda in Africa was once called “the most Christian nation” 90%, until Christian against Christian fought against each other and killed 800,000 of their population.

God promised Abraham “the nations” would be blessed through his seed. Abraham was a pagan, called out of the pagan nations - the Gentiles because of his faith. Christ is the seed of Abraham. We are children of Abraham through faith.

Jesus was the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham. The New Covenant is God’s covenant between Him and includes “all nations,” – “every person,” “every individual.” Not groups. God didn’t give us a reason to boast. He does not respect one person, or one nation above another.

Piper · 2021-04-05T15:51:44.944Z

Prophetically speaking, God said “I will never destroy every living creature as I have done.”

Preachers in their sermons change it up. They say, God really meant, "I will not bring a flood to destroy them, however, I will curse the ground and destroy every living creature again, ONLY THIS TIME, I WILL DO IT WITH FIRE. !!!

making God a liar.

The view that God will destroy the world because of man’s increasing wickedness contradicts His Genesis promise.

God said: “I will never again curse the earth although the imagination of man’s heart is evil.”

God was aware of man’s sinfulness. In spite of that knowledge, He promised never again to curse the earth and destroy all of His creatures.

Hebrews 1 is about the end of the Old Covenant and the beginning of the New Covenant between God and the whole world. That should make us happy.

Paul_Thomson · 2021-04-11T00:11:19.165Z

Piper:

Prophetically speaking, God said “I will never destroy every living creature as I have done.”

Preachers in their sermons change it up. They say, God really meant, "I will not bring a flood to destroy them, however, I will curse the ground and destroy every living creature again, ONLY THIS TIME, I WILL DO IT WITH FIRE. !!!

making God a liar.

And I will establish my covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth.
12 And God said, This is the token of the covenant which I make between me and you and every living creature that is with you, for perpetual generations:
13 I do set my bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
14 And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud; and I will look upon it, that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
17 And God said unto Noah, This is the token of the covenant, which I have established between me and all flesh that is upon the earth.

Guntsu · 2021-04-11T00:27:31.027Z

According to my Adventist teachings we are near the end times, although there is no belief in the rapture or that our spirits go to heaven or hell until the day of judgment

Piper · 2021-04-11T07:00:37.945Z

Genesis 8:18 "So Noah went forth, and his sons and his wife and his sons’ wives with him. 19 And every beast, every creeping thing, and every bird, everything that moves upon the earth, went forth by families out of the ark. 20 Then Noah built an altar to the LORD, and took of every clean animal and of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar.

Genesis 8:21 And when the LORD smelled the pleasing odor, the LORD said in his heart, "I will never again curse the ground because of man, for the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done. 22 While the earth remains, seedtime and harvest, cold and heat, summer and winter, day and night, shall not cease."

Paul_Thomson · 2021-04-11T08:29:34.383Z

Piper:

neither will I ever again destroy every living creature as I have done.

As I have done = in the way I just did = with a flood. He did not promise never to again destroy every living creature. "Do not add to God’s words, lest you make him a liar " Proverbs.

Piper · 2021-04-11T10:53:51.443Z

Paul_Thomson:

As I have done = in the way I just did = with a flood. He did not promise never to again destroy every living creature. "Do not add to God’s words, lest you make him a liar " Proverbs.

What about "as long as the earth stands?" Are we taking away from Scripture by omitting that?

Adding “one of these days I will destroy all living things again, but the next time, I will do it by fire.” Is adding to Scripture.

Was God concerned with methods? Or was God concerned with mercy?

Did God determine right then to change his method of destruction?

Or could it be just like Scripture records. In His mercy, He looked on all the suffering caused by the flood and vowed never again to bring destruction on the earth.

Although He had once destroyed every living creature because of man’s evil, God vowed to never again destroy every living creature, although He knew man would continue to be evil.

If the traditional view of a universal disaster by fire is accurate, that makes it that God has reneged and I don’t believe He did.

Paul_Thomson · 2021-04-12T01:50:38.835Z

Piper:

If the traditional view of a universal disaster by fire is accurate, that makes it that God has reneged and I don’t believe He did.

It seems like God is reneging, only because you have interpreted a statement by God in a way that precludes his acting in a way his actual words do not preclude.

Noah had experienced the first ever rain and that was accompanied by a worldwide flood. It might be worthwhile for God to promise that heavy rain from now on would not be the harbinger of total destruction. Noah and descendents would find that reassuring, I think.

Paul_Thomson · 2021-04-12T02:53:55.070Z

Piper:

Adding “one of these days I will destroy all living things again, but the next time, I will do it by fire.” Is adding to Scripture.

I don’t think I said that God will destroy all living things by fire. That would entail destroying saints and angels.

Piper · 2021-04-12T12:22:16.174Z

Paul_Thomson:

I don’t think I said that God will destroy all living things by fire. That would entail destroying saints and angels.

Where will the saints be during the annihilation of the universe?

If the heavens literally pass away, what is left? A vacuum. Space is a vacuum. Fire in a vacuum? Good luck explaining that.

To where and in what direction would the billions of stars fall?

SixFoot · 2021-04-12T13:11:38.988Z

Herein lies the problem with people reinterpreting ancient texts, from ancient languages they never spoke, in modern times:

“I have the right interpretation!”

Paul_Thomson · 2021-04-12T13:15:12.447Z

Piper:

Where will the saints be during the annihilation of the universe?

If the heavens literally pass away, what is left? A vacuum. Space is a vacuum. Fire in a vacuum? Good luck explaining that.

To where and in what direction would the billions of stars fall?

There are three heavens: the air we breathe and in which birds fly; space with the planet, stars, comets, moons, asteroids etc.; and the spiritual realm in which God is seen. God can destroy two without destroying all three. The fire consumes what is physical in the two lower heavens. Matter becomes energy, E=mc2
What’s left? Energy is left.

rp5x5 · 2021-04-13T17:12:41.426Z

Piper:

Paul_Thomson:

I don’t think I said that God will destroy all living things by fire. That would entail destroying saints and angels.

Where will the saints be during the annihilation of the universe?

If the heavens literally pass away, what is left? A vacuum. Space is a vacuum. Fire in a vacuum? Good luck explaining that.

To where and in what direction would the billions of stars fall?

This can be fully explained by understanding Buddhist Sutras, which in no way contradict, Christian scripture.

The answer refers back to the meaning of the “trinity” and how “Holy Ghost” holds all latent causes in voidness. “'Vacuum” has latent cause and effect. There is no actual duallity.

Piper · 2021-04-16T13:24:01.232Z

Paul_Thomson:

There are three heavens: the air we breathe and in which birds fly; space with the planet, stars, comets, moons, asteroids etc.; and the spiritual realm in which God is seen. God can destroy two without destroying all three. The fire consumes what is physical in the two lower heavens. Matter becomes energy, E=mc2
What’s left? Energy is left.

God can do that. He is God.

God can also destroy the heavens and the earth the same way He created them. By His word. He spoke and it was so.

Let there be…
Let there not be…

He could speak and they would be gone.

Being earthly, we tend to interpret through our physical senses. We develop our own imagery. To us, the stars have not fallen. The heavens have not passed away, the earth and the works have not burned up etc

Communications from God is through imagery. Hebrew writers often described God’s dealings with men in exaggerated descriptions. We miss the meaning when we interpret literally in physical imagery.

The stars have all fallen. The heaven has been destroyed. The sun and moon have been darkened. The Lord did come on the clouds. But not literally.

Hundreds of years before Jesus’ birth, those things did happen.

Isaiah warned Babylon. Isaiah 13:9 “Behold, the day of the LORD comes, cruel, with wrath and fierce anger, to make the earth a desolation and to destroy its sinners from it. 10 For the stars of the heavens and their constellations will not give their light; the sun will be dark at its rising and the moon will not shed its light. 11 I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; I will put an end to the pride of the arrogant, and lay low the haughtiness of the ruthless. 12 I will make men more rare than fine gold, and mankind than the gold of Ophir. 13 Therefore I will make the heavens tremble, and the earth will be shaken out of its place, at the wrath of the LORD of hosts in the day of his fierce anger.”

God’s fury against the nations.

Isaiah 34:3 “Their slain shall be cast out, and the stench of their corpses shall rise; the mountains shall flow with their blood. 4 the host of heaven shall rot away, and the skies roll up like a scroll.”

9 “And the streams of Edom shall be turned into pitch, and her soil into brimstone; her land shall become burning pitch.”

10 “Night and day it shall not be quenched; its smoke shall go up for ever. From generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever.”

Isaiah 19:1 “An oracle concerning Egypt, Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and comes to Egypt.”

There are other declarations in Ezekiel 32:1, Isaiah 7, 18, 19 against Egypt, Damascus and Ethiopia.

These things were fulfilled thousands of years ago when God overthrew orders, systems and nations and those rulers and associated with them.

Were they literal? Was Jesus to come in a literal body riding on a literal cloud, on a horse, with angels, in flaming fire?

The symbolic language in Scripture was not just to appeal to the curiosity of the people to whom Scripture was addressed.

The imagery is about the last days of Judaism. It would confirm the new heaven and new earth which is God’s new and spiritual rule with the New Covenant - the Kingdom which cannot be shaken, that Kingdom where believers now dwell.

Paul_Thomson · 2021-04-17T16:30:08.700Z

Piper:

The stars have all fallen. The heaven has been destroyed. The sun and moon have been darkened. The Lord did come on the clouds. But not literally

Or, alternatively, if the night sky is obscured fom view but a meteor shower occurs, it would be heavenly lights falling.

It could be figurative, or it could be literal. Rev. 6 predicts a future falling of lights, and the jury is out on whether that is literal or figurative.