What's the Democrat endgame plan?

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:20:42.524Z

zantax:

Only because the mainstream media is populated primarily by those on the left and are far more likely to call out Republican conspiracy theories.

Not sure I understand your point… I here the Republican conspiracy theories mostly from their own mouths and their right-wing alternative media… not from mainstream media (excluding Fox News)

zantax:

And the left here are a fairly moderate bunch.

I thought we were a bunch of radical socialist/authoritarian/communists?

EternalVigilance · 2021-03-16T17:21:25.973Z

zantax:

No, I believe they are using them to keep peoples eyeballs on their product. They didn’t write the code, they let machines do it and that’s how it panned out.

Netflix - “The Social Dilemma.” Pretty frightening documentary that implies that Big Tech has lost control of many of those algorithms. Think “Skynet.”

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:22:03.899Z

fallenturtle:

zantax:

Only because the mainstream media is populated primarily by those on the left and are far more likely to call out Republican conspiracy theories.

Not sure I understand your point… I here the Republican conspiracy theories mostly from their own mouths and their right-wing alternative media… not from mainstream media (excluding Fox News)

zantax:

And the left here are a fairly moderate bunch.

I thought we were a bunch of radical socialist/authoritarian/communists?

Nope, pretty tame compared to liberals in the wild. Your extremists couldn’t tolerate it here, they’d melt down and get banned. You have been culled to moderates by bans.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:26:39.807Z

zantax:

fallenturtle:

zantax:

fallenturtle:

zantax:

Mostly because the left allowed machine learning to push them into them.

It’s the left and their evil machines!!!

zantax:

Doing it to your side as well.

Doesn’t even compare.

Well, it is. See the Social Dilemma. Machine written AI has discovered, conspiracy theories hold people’s attention and actively pushes people towards them. And most people don’t stand a chance against them.

Okay… and let me guess… you believe its all intentional? That the evil left tech companies are using AI to intentionally spread misinformation and conspiracy theories…

No, I believe they are using them to keep peoples eyeballs on their product. They didn’t write the code, they let machines do it and that’s how it panned out.

I fully support education in our schools (and of course voluntary stuff for grownups) to teach folks to be mindful of how media, the government, and businesses manipulate us.

This is a bit of a tangent, but there is this site called Prodigy (no relation to the band or the old dial-up service) that is basically an RPG combined with math. Its pushed in a lot of schools. It has a free tier and a paid subscription tier. As far as the math and learning stuff is concerned, its the same on both tiers, but the paid tier gives you access to accessories and stuff you can use on your characters. I’ve had multiple instances of my kid crying because she’s jealous that some classmate has a paid subscription and gets all these accessories and I try to use this as a teachable moment of how they are manipulating children to get their parents to but things. Drives me up the wall.

Sorry for the tangent/rant.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:29:12.470Z

zantax:

fallenturtle:

zantax:

Only because the mainstream media is populated primarily by those on the left and are far more likely to call out Republican conspiracy theories.

Not sure I understand your point… I here the Republican conspiracy theories mostly from their own mouths and their right-wing alternative media… not from mainstream media (excluding Fox News)

zantax:

And the left here are a fairly moderate bunch.

I thought we were a bunch of radical socialist/authoritarian/communists?

Nope, pretty tame compared to liberals in the wild. Your extremists couldn’t tolerate it here, they’d melt down and get banned. You have been culled to moderates by bans.

Nonsense. There are no forum rules against advocating far leftist ideas.

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:29:22.019Z

You should really look into how it’s all done, very manipulative, inconstant reward to cause addiction, fame lottery, social disapproval avoidance. Education isn’t going to cut it. Need a flat out ban on these machine written neural networks for this use. Machines are better at this then we are. Most people don’t stand a chance against it, educated or not. Plus they have both no ethical constraints and the people who caused them to come into existence don’t even know how they work or exactly what they are doing, just whether it results in more hours spent watching their product.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:30:06.467Z

What’s the solution, in your opinion?

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:35:49.592Z

fallenturtle:

What’s the solution, in your opinion?

Let’s use a realistic hypothetical that may actually be real. Say a neural network figures out how to identify bipolar people and use that knowledge to target them with ads during their manic phase. Is that ethical? Would the people running the show even know it was being done? They didn’t write it, the AI doesn’t even know it. All it knows is, people in that subset, that it doesn’t know are bipolar are subject to that manipulation to get the result it is tasked with, sell more, keep engaged.

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:39:39.255Z

And now we just play whack a mole, like when we find out oh that these neural networks pushed teen girls towards bulimia videos if they watched a video about diet. We complain, they change, prohibit, that outcome. What about all the nonsense like it we don’t catch?

Paul_Thomson · 2021-03-16T18:00:35.483Z

fallenturtle:

Those hoaxes are momentary incidents

Four years and counting is momentary?

Paul_Thomson · 2021-03-16T18:06:31.338Z

fallenturtle:

Okay… and let me guess… you believe its all intentional? That the evil left tech companies are using AI to intentionally spread misinformation and conspiracy theories…

Is reciting the truth in a mocking tone supposed to scare people off acknowledging it?

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T18:07:50.071Z

zantax:

fallenturtle:

What’s the solution, in your opinion?

Let’s use a realistic hypothetical that may actually be real. Say a neural network figures out how to identify bipolar people and use that knowledge to target them with ads during their manic phase. Is that ethical?

I personally wouldn’t consider that ethical.

Would the people running the show even know it was being done? They didn’t write it, the AI doesn’t even know it. All it knows is, people in that subset, that it doesn’t know are bipolar are subject to that manipulation to get the result it is tasked with, sell more, keep engaged.

As we start having more and more AI in our lives I think its inevitable that there will need be some sort of regulations created. At the very least all new functions/patterns created by an AI should be reviewed by a human.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T18:09:56.496Z

zantax:

And now we just play whack a mole, like when we find out oh that these neural networks pushed teen girls towards bulimia videos if they watched a video about diet. We complain, they change, prohibit, that outcome. What about all the nonsense like it we don’t catch?

That’s kind of how its always been. You can only do so much… history is full of moderation missing things. I guess you just have to… dare I say… stay woke.

zantax · 2021-03-16T18:12:04.578Z

fallenturtle:

zantax:

And now we just play whack a mole, like when we find out oh that these neural networks pushed teen girls towards bulimia videos if they watched a video about diet. We complain, they change, prohibit, that outcome. What about all the nonsense like it we don’t catch?

That’s kind of how its always been. You can only do so much… history is full of moderation missing things. I guess you just have to… dare I say… stay woke.

What isn’t as it has always been, allowing machines to manipulate people without understanding or genuine oversight of what it is doing. And giving it access to the minds of our children with a clear goal of delivering dopamine to their brains to keep them tuned in. Completely new. Neural networks put humans to shame in this kind of modeling and pattern recognition. No human or group of humans could even come close.

Now imagine a foreign adversary tasking its neural networks to cause rebellion here.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T18:15:37.521Z

Paul_Thomson:

fallenturtle:

Those hoaxes are momentary incidents

Four years and counting is momentary?

Would it be an accurate assumption that you are alluding to the theory that the Trump campaign worked with Russia to help undermine the 2016 election in his favor? That didn’t really expand beyond year 2 and pretty much no one that I’m aware of believes it actually changed the outcome of the election. The impeachment was about the Ukraine call… and that’s not really a conspiracy theory or “hoax”. That actually happened.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T18:16:00.265Z

Paul_Thomson:

fallenturtle:

Okay… and let me guess… you believe its all intentional? That the evil left tech companies are using AI to intentionally spread misinformation and conspiracy theories…

Is reciting the truth in a mocking tone supposed to scare people off acknowledging it?

No, why do you ask?

biggestal99 · 2021-03-16T18:22:50.948Z

Paul_Thomson:

Why is 538 polls your gold standard?

538 very good at polling aggregator.

Allan

biggestal99 · 2021-03-16T18:29:24.597Z

biggestal99:

538 very good at polling aggregator.

Allan

For instance it called 50 out of 53 states and congressional districts correctly.

They missed on Florida, North Carolina and maines 2nd cd.

Every other race was called correctly.

That’s really good.

Allan

GrandWazoo · 2021-03-16T18:42:25.522Z

fallenturtle:

There is no “endgame”… the Democrats want the same thing as the Republicans, to win elections, hold majorities, and pass their policies.

Exactly. And now we will see if the Democrats can pass bills and how they will be perceived.
If good, they will stay around. And on the flip side we now have a lot of Republicans who are thinking
that the only way they win is to change the election rules in their favor.

zantax · 2021-03-16T18:42:38.756Z

biggestal99:

biggestal99:

538 very good at polling aggregator.

Allan

For instance it called 50 out of 53 states and congressional districts correctly.

They missed on Florida, North Carolina and maines 2nd cd.

Every other race was called correctly.

That’s really good.

Allan

Needs nuance

from The 2020 election’s polling errors are eerily similar to four years ago | Fortune

The Democratic nominee was forecast by Nate Silver’s FiveThirtyEight to win Wisconsin by 8.3 percentage pointsand Pennsylvania by 4.7 points, however, he took the states by only 0.6 points and 1.2 points, respectively.