What's the Democrat endgame plan?

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:15:49.227Z

zantax:

fallenturtle:

Bill.in.PA:

The dangerous BlueAnon is full of them as well, but since the movement’s members include most of the mainstream media, many gullible followers believe they are true.

The dangerous Blue Anon movement - Politics - Hannity Community

There is no Blue Anon movement. That’s just more ■■■■ made up by the right.
It’s also laughable if you think any of those “hoaxes” compare to the outlandish ■■■■ the right believes or has believed. Those hoaxes are momentary incidents… on the flipside the right continues to believe ■■■■ like the Democrats are secret communists who want turn the US into the next China or USSR, or that a world wide cabal of climate scientists are lying about climate change, or that the election was stolen, or that there’s a secret organization pulling the strings of the DNC, or that Biden is a barely functioning puppet, or that the left wants to take away all guns, or that Republicans are being banned from Facebook and Twitter, or that the left wants to make Christianity illegal, etc.

Blind in your left eye.

How the Left Lost Its Mind - The Atlantic

No side is immune from believing conspiracy theories… but you can’t deny that the right’s tend to surface more often to the mainstream right. Then the other way around. Look at these forums for example… how many of those conspiracy theories in that article are held as gospel by the Hannity left vs how many of those things I listed above are held as gospel by the Hannity right. There are a few conservatives on this board that flat out state that they believe everything someone on the left says to them is a lie.

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:17:39.567Z

Only because the mainstream media is populated primarily by those on the left and are far more likely to call out Republican conspiracy theories. And the left here are a fairly moderate bunch.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:18:28.987Z

zantax:

fallenturtle:

zantax:

Mostly because the left allowed machine learning to push them into them.

It’s the left and their evil machines!!!

zantax:

Doing it to your side as well.

Doesn’t even compare.

Well, it is. See the Social Dilemma. Machine written AI has discovered, conspiracy theories hold people’s attention and actively pushes people towards them. And most people don’t stand a chance against them.

Okay… and let me guess… you believe its all intentional? That the evil left tech companies are using AI to intentionally spread misinformation and conspiracy theories…

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:19:42.386Z

fallenturtle:

zantax:

fallenturtle:

zantax:

Mostly because the left allowed machine learning to push them into them.

It’s the left and their evil machines!!!

zantax:

Doing it to your side as well.

Doesn’t even compare.

Well, it is. See the Social Dilemma. Machine written AI has discovered, conspiracy theories hold people’s attention and actively pushes people towards them. And most people don’t stand a chance against them.

Okay… and let me guess… you believe its all intentional? That the evil left tech companies are using AI to intentionally spread misinformation and conspiracy theories…

No, I believe they are using them to keep peoples eyeballs on their product. They didn’t write the code, they let machines do it and that’s how it panned out. The machine just figured out the most effective method of doing it, which turns out to be extreme views and conspiracies.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:20:42.524Z

zantax:

Only because the mainstream media is populated primarily by those on the left and are far more likely to call out Republican conspiracy theories.

Not sure I understand your point… I here the Republican conspiracy theories mostly from their own mouths and their right-wing alternative media… not from mainstream media (excluding Fox News)

zantax:

And the left here are a fairly moderate bunch.

I thought we were a bunch of radical socialist/authoritarian/communists?

EternalVigilance · 2021-03-16T17:21:25.973Z

zantax:

No, I believe they are using them to keep peoples eyeballs on their product. They didn’t write the code, they let machines do it and that’s how it panned out.

Netflix - “The Social Dilemma.” Pretty frightening documentary that implies that Big Tech has lost control of many of those algorithms. Think “Skynet.”

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:22:03.899Z

fallenturtle:

zantax:

Only because the mainstream media is populated primarily by those on the left and are far more likely to call out Republican conspiracy theories.

Not sure I understand your point… I here the Republican conspiracy theories mostly from their own mouths and their right-wing alternative media… not from mainstream media (excluding Fox News)

zantax:

And the left here are a fairly moderate bunch.

I thought we were a bunch of radical socialist/authoritarian/communists?

Nope, pretty tame compared to liberals in the wild. Your extremists couldn’t tolerate it here, they’d melt down and get banned. You have been culled to moderates by bans.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:26:39.807Z

zantax:

fallenturtle:

zantax:

fallenturtle:

zantax:

Mostly because the left allowed machine learning to push them into them.

It’s the left and their evil machines!!!

zantax:

Doing it to your side as well.

Doesn’t even compare.

Well, it is. See the Social Dilemma. Machine written AI has discovered, conspiracy theories hold people’s attention and actively pushes people towards them. And most people don’t stand a chance against them.

Okay… and let me guess… you believe its all intentional? That the evil left tech companies are using AI to intentionally spread misinformation and conspiracy theories…

No, I believe they are using them to keep peoples eyeballs on their product. They didn’t write the code, they let machines do it and that’s how it panned out.

I fully support education in our schools (and of course voluntary stuff for grownups) to teach folks to be mindful of how media, the government, and businesses manipulate us.

This is a bit of a tangent, but there is this site called Prodigy (no relation to the band or the old dial-up service) that is basically an RPG combined with math. Its pushed in a lot of schools. It has a free tier and a paid subscription tier. As far as the math and learning stuff is concerned, its the same on both tiers, but the paid tier gives you access to accessories and stuff you can use on your characters. I’ve had multiple instances of my kid crying because she’s jealous that some classmate has a paid subscription and gets all these accessories and I try to use this as a teachable moment of how they are manipulating children to get their parents to but things. Drives me up the wall.

Sorry for the tangent/rant.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:29:12.470Z

zantax:

fallenturtle:

zantax:

Only because the mainstream media is populated primarily by those on the left and are far more likely to call out Republican conspiracy theories.

Not sure I understand your point… I here the Republican conspiracy theories mostly from their own mouths and their right-wing alternative media… not from mainstream media (excluding Fox News)

zantax:

And the left here are a fairly moderate bunch.

I thought we were a bunch of radical socialist/authoritarian/communists?

Nope, pretty tame compared to liberals in the wild. Your extremists couldn’t tolerate it here, they’d melt down and get banned. You have been culled to moderates by bans.

Nonsense. There are no forum rules against advocating far leftist ideas.

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:29:22.019Z

You should really look into how it’s all done, very manipulative, inconstant reward to cause addiction, fame lottery, social disapproval avoidance. Education isn’t going to cut it. Need a flat out ban on these machine written neural networks for this use. Machines are better at this then we are. Most people don’t stand a chance against it, educated or not. Plus they have both no ethical constraints and the people who caused them to come into existence don’t even know how they work or exactly what they are doing, just whether it results in more hours spent watching their product.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T17:30:06.467Z

What’s the solution, in your opinion?

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:35:49.592Z

fallenturtle:

What’s the solution, in your opinion?

Let’s use a realistic hypothetical that may actually be real. Say a neural network figures out how to identify bipolar people and use that knowledge to target them with ads during their manic phase. Is that ethical? Would the people running the show even know it was being done? They didn’t write it, the AI doesn’t even know it. All it knows is, people in that subset, that it doesn’t know are bipolar are subject to that manipulation to get the result it is tasked with, sell more, keep engaged.

zantax · 2021-03-16T17:39:39.255Z

And now we just play whack a mole, like when we find out oh that these neural networks pushed teen girls towards bulimia videos if they watched a video about diet. We complain, they change, prohibit, that outcome. What about all the nonsense like it we don’t catch?

Paul_Thomson · 2021-03-16T18:00:35.483Z

fallenturtle:

Those hoaxes are momentary incidents

Four years and counting is momentary?

Paul_Thomson · 2021-03-16T18:06:31.338Z

fallenturtle:

Okay… and let me guess… you believe its all intentional? That the evil left tech companies are using AI to intentionally spread misinformation and conspiracy theories…

Is reciting the truth in a mocking tone supposed to scare people off acknowledging it?

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T18:07:50.071Z

zantax:

fallenturtle:

What’s the solution, in your opinion?

Let’s use a realistic hypothetical that may actually be real. Say a neural network figures out how to identify bipolar people and use that knowledge to target them with ads during their manic phase. Is that ethical?

I personally wouldn’t consider that ethical.

Would the people running the show even know it was being done? They didn’t write it, the AI doesn’t even know it. All it knows is, people in that subset, that it doesn’t know are bipolar are subject to that manipulation to get the result it is tasked with, sell more, keep engaged.

As we start having more and more AI in our lives I think its inevitable that there will need be some sort of regulations created. At the very least all new functions/patterns created by an AI should be reviewed by a human.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T18:09:56.496Z

zantax:

And now we just play whack a mole, like when we find out oh that these neural networks pushed teen girls towards bulimia videos if they watched a video about diet. We complain, they change, prohibit, that outcome. What about all the nonsense like it we don’t catch?

That’s kind of how its always been. You can only do so much… history is full of moderation missing things. I guess you just have to… dare I say… stay woke.

zantax · 2021-03-16T18:12:04.578Z

fallenturtle:

zantax:

And now we just play whack a mole, like when we find out oh that these neural networks pushed teen girls towards bulimia videos if they watched a video about diet. We complain, they change, prohibit, that outcome. What about all the nonsense like it we don’t catch?

That’s kind of how its always been. You can only do so much… history is full of moderation missing things. I guess you just have to… dare I say… stay woke.

What isn’t as it has always been, allowing machines to manipulate people without understanding or genuine oversight of what it is doing. And giving it access to the minds of our children with a clear goal of delivering dopamine to their brains to keep them tuned in. Completely new. Neural networks put humans to shame in this kind of modeling and pattern recognition. No human or group of humans could even come close.

Now imagine a foreign adversary tasking its neural networks to cause rebellion here.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T18:15:37.521Z

Paul_Thomson:

fallenturtle:

Those hoaxes are momentary incidents

Four years and counting is momentary?

Would it be an accurate assumption that you are alluding to the theory that the Trump campaign worked with Russia to help undermine the 2016 election in his favor? That didn’t really expand beyond year 2 and pretty much no one that I’m aware of believes it actually changed the outcome of the election. The impeachment was about the Ukraine call… and that’s not really a conspiracy theory or “hoax”. That actually happened.

fallenturtle · 2021-03-16T18:16:00.265Z

Paul_Thomson:

fallenturtle:

Okay… and let me guess… you believe its all intentional? That the evil left tech companies are using AI to intentionally spread misinformation and conspiracy theories…

Is reciting the truth in a mocking tone supposed to scare people off acknowledging it?

No, why do you ask?