What good does it do to talk about race?

[biggestal99]

@WuWei

That doesn’t make any sense.

How does “knowing about Tulsa” improve your life in 2021? How does it make you a “better person”?

No need for better person to be in quotation marks.

It does.

Allan

[peek-a-boo]

@biggestal99

Knowledge is power.

Relevant knowledge is power. Useless trivia is irrelevant.

The more you know, the better person you are.

Allan

Once again, relevant knowledge gives people more choices in their decision making. Useless trivia simply clutters ones mind. Tulsa and other useless trivia about our past won’t give me anything that would help my decision making today.

[WuWei]

@biggestal99

@WuWei

That doesn’t make any sense.

How does “knowing about Tulsa” improve your life in 2021? How does it make you a “better person”?

No need for better person to be in quotation marks.

It does.

Allan

I can have a ton of knowledge about how to murder, rob, cheat and steal -that make me a better person than you?

[biggestal99]

@peek-a-boo

Tulsa and other useless trivia about our past won’t give me anything that would help my decision making today.

I will dispute the Tulsa incident 100 years ago is useless trivia.

It’s not in my opinion.

Yours obviously differs.

Allan

[altair1013]

@biggestal99

Just look at this forum wanting to sweep the United States history under the rug.

That’s the big lie.
The idea is not to teach history, but to teach that the U.S. is evil.

Teach history. All history. But don’t teach our kids what to think about it. And stop trying to turn other people’s kids into baby activists.

[WuWei]

@biggestal99

I will dispute the Tulsa incident 100 years ago is useless trivia.

It’s not in my opinion.

Yours obviously differs.

Allan

How has knowing about it made you a better person?

[JayJay]

@altair1013

@fallenturtle

@Eagle-Keeper

I never claimed discrimination didn’t exist, also that’s not what the OP is about.

Discrimination exists, we just shouldn’t talk about it?

Yes!!!

But we don’t. We should identify organizations and companies who do this and hold them accountable. But we don’t. Instead we give them a pass by claiming everyone is guilty.

Why do we do this?

No it is not claimed “everyone is guilty”. At least, not by anyone who is not an extremist.

That’s an emotional take on it. Especially to take the extremists’ views and pretend the extremists are mainstream.

The talk is about potential parts of our social-legal-financial system in our country where the deck may still be stacked against minorities because of how and when they evolved. And can anything be done about it.

Reasonable people want to have that discussion.

Ideologues want to…and do…take the mere idea that such a thing could exist personally.

[altair1013]

@JayJay

No it is not claimed “everyone is guilty”.

How about this then? Why are we not doing this?

We should identify organizations and companies who discriminate or oppress and hold them accountable. But we don’t.

[JayJay]

@altair1013

@JayJay

No it is not claimed “everyone is guilty”.

How about this then? Why are we not doing this?

We should identify organizations and companies who discriminate or oppress and hold them accountable. But we don’t.

Change organizations to also include “systems and processes” and you are on the right track.

[gooddad409]

@peek-a-boo

@Eagle-Keeper

Let’s try an experiment first to see if discussions here on race, racism, etc., have benefitted any of us. Who here believes that your participation in threads on race has made you a better person or has changed you to behave in a better way towards others that you were not doing before?

Discussions here have had negative effects on me. Prior to Obama and racial discussions following his win, I never gave race a second thought. Over my long and fruitful life, I’ve had occasion to live amongst, work with and live with minorities. I never once felt the need to talk about racial discrimination.

Over the years following Obama’s election, everything became about race in every political forum in which I participated. Prior to his election, I don’t ever recall any political discussion where race was injected for simple partisan disagreement. I’m now sickened by any racial discussion and purposely avoid most threads discussing the topic for fear I will lose my temper.

Raging on and on about race only benefits race agitators such as Sharpton, Jackson, and yes Obama.

[altair1013]

@JayJay

Change organizations to also include “systems and processes” and you are on the right track.

That would make the CEO ultimately responsible for implementing these systems. Right? Well? What the hell are they waiting for? Name em and shame em? Can you explain why they are holding back?

Your people excel at complaining but suck at accountability. FREAKING DO SOMETHING!

[WuWei]

@JayJay

No it is not claimed “everyone is guilty”. At least, not by anyone who is not an extremist.

Yes it is

“Wildman and Davis, for instance, contend that white supremacy is a system of oppression and privilege that all white people benefit from. Therefore, all white people “…are racist in this use of the term, because we benefit from systemic white privilege. Generally whites think of racism as voluntary, intentional conduct done by horrible others. Whites spend a lot of time trying to convince ourselves and each other that we are not racist. A big step would be for whites to admit that we are racist and then to consider what to do about it.”” From Being White, Being Good: White Complicity, White Moral Responsibility, and Social Justice Pedagogy , by Barbara Applebaum, p. 15.

Oh and for @PurpnGold from THE TEXTBOOK

“Many critical race theorists and social scientists alike hold that racism is pervasive, systemic, and deeply ingrained. If we take this perspective, then no white member of society seems quite so innocent.” From Critical Race Theory: An Introduction, by Richard Delgado and Jean Stefancic, first edition, pp. 79–80.

[JayJay]

@altair1013

@JayJay

Change organizations to also include “systems and processes” and you are on the right track.

That would make the CEO ultimately responsible for implementing these systems. Right? Well? What the hell are they waiting for? Name em and shame em? Can you explain why they are holding back?

Your people excel at complaining but suck at accountability. FREAKING DO SOMETHING!

It’s not just companies.

And when naming and shaming happens, the reactionary response is stuff is being made up and it’s not real.

I mentioned for example real life tests that show the more “white” or “mainstream” a person’s job application looks, the more likely he/she will pass through initial screening than one that “looks minority”.

Immediately I was told here those tests were ■■■■■■■■ .

So there’s an unwillingness to believe it’s even an issue.

[fallenturtle]

@peek-a-boo

@fallenturtle

Discrimination exists, we just shouldn’t talk about it?

Why? To what purpose?

Awareness. Understanding. Empathy. A drive to make things better. And if you are one of the people doing it, personal improvement.

I mean, if a portion of the population is being discriminated against, do you think its better to stay silent, sweep it under the carpet?

[WuWei]

@fallenturtle

A drive to make things better.

Right on!

[JayJay]

@WuWei

@JayJay

No it is not claimed “everyone is guilty”. At least, not by anyone who is not an extremist.

Yes it is

“Wildman and Davis, for instance, contend that white supremacy is a system of oppression and privilege that all white people benefit from. Therefore, all white people “…are racist in this use of the term, because we benefit from systemic white privilege. Generally whites think of racism as voluntary, intentional conduct done by horrible others. Whites spend a lot of time trying to convince ourselves and each other that we are not racist. A big step would be for whites to admit that we are racist and then to consider what to do about it.”” From Being White, Being Good: White Complicity, White Moral Responsibility, and Social Justice Pedagogy , by Barbara Applebaum, p. 15.

“At least, not by anyone who is not an extremist”.

Yes I consider these folks to be extremists.

[peek-a-boo]

@biggestal99

I will dispute the Tulsa incident 100 years ago is useless trivia.

It’s not in my opinion.

Yours obviously differs.

Allan

To me Tulsa is useless trivia. I know nothing about it and don’t care to take the time to learn. Knowledge of that history will do nothing to enrich my life nor will it help me with any decisions I have to make in this late stage of my life.

Obviously you feel differently and you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

[fallenturtle]

@altair1013

@fallenturtle

We don’t do that. This whole white people should feel guilty thing is primary a right-wing figment as they take the issues with racism personally. One should only feel guilty for their own actions.

You don’t do this either. Why not?

We should identify organizations and companies who do this and hold them accountable.

Well the only times I’ve experienced it was when I was an administrative assistant and I didn’t want to risk losing my job I needed because my boss was personal friends with the owner of the company. I guess you can mark that up to selfishness on my half.

[WuWei]

@JayJay

@WuWei

@JayJay

No it is not claimed “everyone is guilty”. At least, not by anyone who is not an extremist.

Yes it is

“Wildman and Davis, for instance, contend that white supremacy is a system of oppression and privilege that all white people benefit from. Therefore, all white people “…are racist in this use of the term, because we benefit from systemic white privilege. Generally whites think of racism as voluntary, intentional conduct done by horrible others. Whites spend a lot of time trying to convince ourselves and each other that we are not racist. A big step would be for whites to admit that we are racist and then to consider what to do about it.”” From Being White, Being Good: White Complicity, White Moral Responsibility, and Social Justice Pedagogy , by Barbara Applebaum, p. 15.

“At least, not by anyone who is not an extremist”.

Yes I consider these folks to be extremists.

She’s not. She’s a professor of education at Syracuse.

I added to it.

[biggestal99]

@altair1013

The idea is not to teach history, but to teach that the U.S. is evil.

Well I don’t know about the United States being evil but what happened in Tulsa was.

Do you really want to sweep Tulsa and the underpinnings under the rug?

Allan