What does civilian oversight mean?

WuWei · 2021-09-18T05:42:59.376Z

Among others.

Supreme_War_Pig · 2021-09-18T05:46:21.511Z

Did you know you can quote a poster without duplicating the long chain of posts.

In any event, you’re gonna need to give me more to go on.

WuWei · 2021-09-18T07:22:08.909Z

Not just you.

Bill.in.PA · 2021-09-18T08:12:39.780Z

Who decides the king is mad?

There are plenty of impairment questions Biden. What if Putin expresses concern about Biden’s finger on the button?

Should Milley use that as pretext start secret communications with Russian generals and to ignore Biden’s orders?

Orygun · 2021-09-18T15:12:19.986Z

Bill.in.PA:

Should Milley use that as pretext start secret communications with Russian generals and to ignore Biden’s orders?

If Biden ordered a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Russia, I would hope that no military commander would obey his orders.

Orygun · 2021-09-18T15:14:04.879Z

Supreme_War_Pig:

It’s not a belief, it’s a fact. And the only guardrails are the service people in the chain of command.

Frankly I think it’s completely theoretical and there are a lot of Constitutional questions around it. Seriously does any liberal or conservative want a single person to have the power to end civilization as we know it on a whim?

WuWei · 2021-09-18T15:16:22.608Z

Orygun:

Bill.in.PA:

Should Milley use that as pretext start secret communications with Russian generals and to ignore Biden’s orders?

If Biden ordered a pre-emptive nuclear strike on Russia, I would hope that no military commander would obey his orders.

Trump didn’t order a strike of any kind on China.

What you are advocating may be the most dangerous thing in government.

WuWei · 2021-09-18T15:17:15.001Z

Orygun:

Supreme_War_Pig:

It’s not a belief, it’s a fact. And the only guardrails are the service people in the chain of command.

Frankly I think it’s completely theoretical and there are a lot of Constitutional questions around it. Seriously does any liberal or conservative want a single person to have the power to end civilization as we know it on a whim?

No single person does. Are you guys getting this from TV Man?

Orygun · 2021-09-18T15:17:20.292Z

WuWei:

Trump didn’t order a strike of any kind on China.

Correct- not does he have the power to do so unilaterally and pre-emotively. Sounds like the Chinese needed some reassurance that that would not happen.

WuWei · 2021-09-18T15:18:13.992Z

Orygun:

WuWei:

Trump didn’t order a strike of any kind on China.

Correct- not does he have the power to do so unilaterally and pre-emotively. Sounds like the Chinese needed some reassurance that that would not happen.

TV Man told them he might.

Supreme_War_Pig · 2021-09-18T15:19:29.410Z

Orygun:

Supreme_War_Pig:

It’s not a belief, it’s a fact. And the only guardrails are the service people in the chain of command.

Frankly I think it’s completely theoretical and there are a lot of Constitutional questions around it. Seriously does any liberal or conservative want a single person to have the power to end civilization as we know it on a whim?

Okay, that’s fair. Please join me in my prayer that it remains theoretical.

Having said that, I for one don’t want a single person to have that power. But given the exigency of nuclear war, I can’t imagine an alternative…aside from disarmament.

Let us also pray for that.

WuWei · 2021-09-18T15:22:22.919Z

Supreme_War_Pig:

Having said that, I for one don’t want a single person to have that power.

None does.

Orygun · 2021-09-18T16:21:49.965Z

Supreme_War_Pig:

Having said that, I for one don’t want a single person to have that power. But given the exigency of nuclear war, I can’t imagine an alternative…aside from disarmament.

My sense is that launching a nuclear attack should only happen if there is direct evidence of a major power about to do that towards us. Barring that, I think the act would be unconstitutional and that no military commander should obey that order.

WuWei · 2021-09-18T16:24:13.622Z

Orygun:

Barring that, I think the act would be unconstitutional and that no military commander should obey that order.

Legal, not Constitutional.

Very dangerous.

Orygun · 2021-09-18T16:24:40.060Z

WuWei:

Legal, not Constitutional.

Can you expand on that? I don’t get your meaning.

WuWei · 2021-09-18T16:25:25.013Z

It seems there is an assumption that Mark Milley is smarter than a President?

WuWei · 2021-09-18T16:26:22.566Z

Orygun:

WuWei:

Legal, not Constitutional.

Can you expand on that? I don’t get your meaning.

The criteria is lawful, not Constitutional. Nobody in uniform gets to decide Constitutionality.

Orygun · 2021-09-18T16:27:31.247Z

WuWei:

It seems there is an assumption that Mark Milley is smarter than a President?

I’m not really talking about Milley. But he was acting as a normal military official making sure that there are no needless escalations with a major military power. And yes that is in his purview. Like I said, why do you think we even regularly communicate with foreign adversarial militaries?

Supreme_War_Pig · 2021-09-18T16:28:17.401Z

Orygun:

Supreme_War_Pig:

Having said that, I for one don’t want a single person to have that power. But given the exigency of nuclear war, I can’t imagine an alternative…aside from disarmament.

My sense is that launching a nuclear attack should only happen if there is direct evidence of a major power about to do that towards us. Barring that, I think the act would be unconstitutional and that no military commander should obey that order.

Of course. The problem is that everything moves so quickly. As noted above, it’s just a matter of minutes, and that puts enormous pressure on the system to act quickly. Not much time for confirmation, let alone debate.

Orygun · 2021-09-18T16:29:11.099Z

WuWei:

The criteria is lawful, not Constitutional. Nobody in uniform gets to decide Constitutionality.

I disagree. If a mad commander says launch all the nukes at Italy or Bolivia, it would be good and right for a military commander to disobey those orders. They take an oath to the constitution not to a president.