Was the virgin birth allegory?


#83

Confusing book of stories some people take literally some dont, some say allegory some pick and choose, contradictions, written by primitive people, characters that are worshipped, 1000 interpretations, just 1 of many religious texts, etc. Your question too vague.

How do you read the koran or ancient Egyptian text


#84

In ur own words, who are you to say what is miracle and what is allegory, that is what I was confused about


#85

First, I don’t read the Quran or Egyptian text–why should I? Nor do I have any interest in telling those who do read them what they say, or dismiss either as allegories written by primitive minds. Instead, I would be interested in the value they discerned in their own studies.

Second, Biblical stories become much less confusing when one takes the time to study the history, culture, and language of Biblical times. Next, it is valuable to understand the intent of the authors and what they were conveying to the readers of their own time.

I imagine those who know the Quran and Egyptian texts best do the same.


#86

I confused cause you said who are you to judge if virgin birth was a miracle or allegory but now say some things are miracle sone things are allegory. I study by asking these questions. Your answers confused me then you asked how I read the bible which confused me more because I was asking why you read the bible as literal sometimes and allegory as others


#87

For that, I would need a specific example. Are you thinking of a specific story? Recently I gave an example of how I try to look at any account–such as Exodus, the burning bush, the ten plagues. Not only is there history, language, and culture to consider, but we can also assess what science has taught us about such things since the events took place.


#88

I think it is good to keep open mind and to understand all religions as much as possible to have better knowledge and judgement of history, where we come from and why others believe what they do…how can you understand religion without understanding Egypt or religions that you dont worship sounds not open minded


#89

Why dont you believe virgin birth is allegory


#90

The miracle stories in the Gospels do not appear to be written or intended as allegories. On the other hand, the Book of Revelation was clearly written in apocalyptic narrative, which by definition is allegory.

The New Testament directly state when Jesus is speaking in parables and when he is not. The Old Testament may not be as direct, but the rabbinical commentaries I have read state that if donkeys do not talk speak in our language today, that is our first clue that they did not speak in human language then. That does not mean that the donkey’s behavior didn’t convey what the author elected to put into actual words.


#91

they appear to me to be allegory. Have you read ancient virgin birth stories in other religions … sounds familiar


#92

Open mind aside, I see it differently. While I have a general understanding of other religions and faiths, my interest lies in Judaism and Christianity. Musicians don’t need to learn to play every instrument or even every song. Should they attempt to do this, they would have a difficult time mastering one or two. The same with novelists, scientists, teachers and any other profession.


#93

Maybe they are not written to sound like allegory because the authors want you to think it was real and not allegory…but then you are just trusting the authors, even though other authors before them wrote about virgin births of other gods


#94

We arent talking about music we are talking about religious studies which human history they are intertwined…understanding religions before Christianity help understand where Christian allegory and miracle stories could come from like the virgin birth


#95

Allegories imply something is figurative, addressing a subject in the guise of another. The story is written about a woman conceiving, bearing, and giving birth to a child. No one doubts this part of the story, or claims it is allegory. Giving birth to an idea is allegory; giving birth to a child is not. Some people question one part of the account. This does not make the story allegory. It is more accurate to opine that the young woman was naive and gullible, tricked into having sex by someone a great deal more sophisticated, not to mention experienced, charming, and convincing.


#96

I have a great love of Greek, Roman, and other mythologies. The commonality is virgin birth. The other details are quite different, and that tells a story as well.


#97

Athena, born from Zeus’ forehead; Aphrodite, born from the cut-off genitals of Uranos… I think someone else came from a knee.


#98

Or, it could just muddy the waters. For example, back in the 1800s people pointed out that Christmas aligned with Roman celebrations in December. One such celebration actually came into being with the intent to overshadow the Christian celebration. Roman celebrations came into being through the winter solstice. Christ’s birthday as December 25 came about through an old tradition that he was put to death the same day he was conceived–March 25. Nine months later is December 25.

Thus the proposition of the late 1800s was debunked, yet year after year, atheists continue to trot it out. Keep in mind that many things that are similar or even the the same still develop independently of each other. One such example is dolls. Eastern cultures did not steal the idea of dolls from Western cultures–or vice-versa. Each developed independently.


#99

As usual, you didn’t answer the question.


#100

Do people still believe that?


#101

That doesn’t seem to have anything to do with what DaMan said.


#102
  1. I said, “Basically it’s just because you were raised in it, then.”

It should have been clear that I was not speaking “for” you. I was deducing the reason why your faith is Christianity rather than Islam. Clearly the only reason is because you were raised in that faith.

  1. Yet I would like to scrutinize it. That’s why I visit the Religious forum, to learn how and why people believe what they believe, regardless of the religion or belief system they espouse.

I’ll tell you about my faith.

I was raised in a Christian household and believed in a loving God up until I was about 12 or so because that’s all I’d ever heard. My family didn’t go to church much and I’d never read the Bible but had heard a few Bible stories and had accepted them unthinkingly.

Then I went to a boarding school that had religion education every few days and one of the first lessons I had to attend was on how the Israels were wandering in the wilderness, complaining about it, and God sent some birds flying overhead. The Israelites shot a few of the birds, ate them, and died because they were poisoned birds sent by God to kill those lousy complainers.

And right then and there I thought, what the hell?

At that point I still believed God existed, but he’d just proven himself to be a psycho, certainly not a God of love, and not worth my worship.

This was confirmed when I read about the 10 plagues of Egype and the whole “God hardened Pharaoh’s heart” every single time so he could send more and more plagues and suffering on the Egyptians.

So that was when I was 12 or so. By the age of 14 I’d matured enough to realize not that God was a psycho, just that the God in the Bible was a psycho, that the Bible was a bunch of stories and God himself did not exist.

That was the evolution of my “faith.”