WAR in Ukraine, Putin approves initiation of special military operation

Sounds a little defensive, Mr. Pig .

“Negotiating” may be what the media is calling it, but term is “sue for peace.” It is usually initiated by the losing party in an attempt to stave off an unconditional surrender. I guess we will see how interested Putin is in cutting his losses by taking the win rather than getting even with Zelensky for having the hutzpah to fight rather than flee, by destroying the whole country and killing as many civilians as he can.

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I don’t follow you there. Are you saying that Zelensky should have never put up a fight and just let the Russians take over?

Yeah he kinda is. Many conservatives here are saying that- adding horrific apologias for Putin’s unilateral invasion using the same gaslighting arguments of Putin that Ukraine is filled with Nazis, that Ukraine made Russia do it by flirting with joining NATO, etc.

And others are saying we should never ever help the Ukrainians with their fight against Russia. That it would be better if Ukraine surrendered immediately to “save lives” etc. I am wondering what they would think if a foreign country attacked America and leveled a city the size of Minneapolis. Surrender?

I wonder why you are being so coy?

Anyway, whatevs. That’s how I hear it, was just wondering.

P.S.-‘defensive’ makes no sense in the context of this conversation. The word you were looking for was ‘curious’.

My bad…you called him a “real leader”.

:rofl: :rofl:

And you are seriously blaming Zelensky more than Putin for what’s happening in Ukraine, which is just bonkers.

You actually are lending credence to the idea that a) neo-Nazis rule his government and b) Ukraine and the West are doing false flags.

Many? I can only think of two that might fit that description.

I’d say about 6.

I discount their artillery and air force because I see no reports of it’s offensive effectiveness or significant use. The Ukrainians trumpet even the smallest tactical success, but nothing about their artillery or air forces. I see effective small unit tactics on their part and a lot of gross incompetence on the Russian force’s part up to this point. But the Russian artillery has been very effective. And they are using it exactly the way they always have, massed fires. And offensive operations are much harder than defensive operations. The Ukrainian Army has been training very hard to defend their land, but not to launch major offensives. They will require massing of stores, munitions and fuel and concentration of force to achieve a 3-1 advantage, at a minimum, at the point of attack. Where along their defensive lines are they able to pull forces to mass for the attack without the Russian’s detecting the movement?

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So they don’t?

As for the real leader I think it went over your head.

I blame both of them and I blame Biden and Europe for hold up support.

No “many” are not saying that, I can think of 4 maybe 5 that fall into one or both of those categories.

I can think of 3 that fit the first and maybe 1 or 2 in the 2nd but that’s about it

That is ok, please do not follow me on that. It seems that months ago Zskyy may have been able to negotiate by not pushing NATO. Actually I agree with him that most of those countries did not help him much. At least they are taking refugees.

@Axxowiz has family there. I listen to @Axxowiz more than media and arm chair commandos. Samm there is more than meets the eye.

Ps, I despise Pukin’Putin.

I also despise the Azov battalion,

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How many folks are here regularly- about 12 conservatives and 10 libs?

Yeah I’d say most of the conservatives here blame the war on “NATO expansionism”- I could name 7-8 off the top of my head. And there’s only a few conservatives here who think Putin is the main culprit- Samm being the main one.

And then you have about 5 completely off the rails conflating Ukraine/Zelensky with Nazis/Azov.

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More than that for both.

Regularly?

There’s probably 50 main posters with about 20 who are regular posters.

Even six is not “many.”

It would appear that @Orygun wants to make this issue partisan like most other topics tend to be. To the contrary, it’s my observation that our© individual politics have very little to do with our© opinions on the war.

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Honestly if you look it at it from a partisan perspective (and not just a forum perspective) there is a Trump/Tucker/Greene wing that is isolationist and plays nice with Putin. There is a much larger conservative group that overtly supports Ukraine against Putin- that would be McCarthy, McConell et al.

Here on the forum it is reversed where the isolationist wing is ascendant. But the GOP generally is very supportive if not more hawkish about supporting Ukraine.