WAR in Ukraine, Putin approves initiation of special military operation (Part 1)

[zantax]

@e7alr

You do realize that 90% of the reporting of overwhelming Ukrainian battlefield prowess was spin.

Sshh, you mean it was an intelligence failure.

[Bill.in.PA]

Yes, and 90% may be a low estimate.

My observation is that most of the high-tech weaponry withheld from Ukraine has never been tested on the battlefield. How do we know it would work as advertised in real life?

There are huge vested interests in hiding problems with weapons developed at the cost of many billions of dollars. “Follow the money” would say that there are almost certainly problems that would only become obvious after we are in a war.

[conan]

Good…this war didn’t have to happen. I seriously believe that.

It was stupid what NATO and EU done/did.

[conan]

@JayJay

Notice that India and Pakistan fought five times…then once both of them had nukes, that didn’t happen again.

This has merits

[JayJay]

@conan

Good…this war didn’t have to happen. I seriously believe that.

It was stupid what NATO and EU done/did.

That the war started is on Putin. He invaded.

Yes we have to start recognizing their interests, something we never really did.

But stop using the “she made me hit her” excuse for Putin.

[conan]

@JayJay

That the war started is on Putin. He invaded.

Yes he did…why? You know why just don’t want to admit it because then you would have agreed with my reasoning.

@JayJay

Yes we have to start recognizing their interests, something we never really did.

Good

@JayJay

But stop using the “she made me hit her” excuse for Putin.

You pose a threat to me is enough for me to take first strike.

[WuWei]

@JayJay

That the war started is on Putin. He invaded.

You don’t understand when a fight actually starts.

[JayJay]

@conan

@JayJay

That the war started is on Putin. He invaded.

Yes he did…why? You know why just don’t want to admit it because then you would have agreed with my reasoning.

@JayJay

Yes we have to start recognizing their interests, something we never really did.

Good

@JayJay

But stop using the “she made me hit her” excuse for Putin.

You pose a threat to me is enough for me to take first strike.

No one posed a military threat to Russia.

No one was going to attack Russia.

Stop it.

[WuWei]

I like your caveat. There are worse threats than military threats. You don’t get to immiserate people.

How a Ukrainian dam played a key role in tensions with Russia

[conan]

You still think you’re innocent…your not.

[JayJay]

Well we will see if that holds once the water crisis becomes bad enough to be fought over…and if they will use their ethnic/historical/religious differences as a pretense…

Here’s one place where your beliefs in Western overreach have merit…the UK absolutely left the subcontinent a ■■■■■■■ mess.

[Bill.in.PA]

Yes, Serbia was no threat to the US when we bombed it in 1999.

Iraq was no threat to the US when we invaded in 2003.

Libya was no threat to the US when we attacked it in 2011.

Does the US need be weakened until it never has the power to conduct unprovoked attacks in the future?

The US blockaded Cuba and threatened to invade over its military alliance with the Soviet Union. Was that unprovoked aggression against Cuba?

[Samm]

@Bill.in.PA

Javelins and Stingers were supposedly destroying the Russian military in March. Ukraine was winning!

Javelins, Stingers, NLAWs Help Ukraine Destroy Russian Tanks, Aircraft

A month later the Russian army was still advancing, and the news was that NATO weapon stocks were virtually gone:
Supply Crisis: U.S. Javelin and Stinger Stocks Rapidly Dwindle | The National Interest

The Javelins are old and unreliable. The stingers were briefly effective, but the Russian air force developed effective countermeasures.

In March, the US announced switchblade drones would go to Ukraine. They were supposed to be a “gamechanger”. The lack of glowing Ukrainian reports about successes with the drones shows that they did not change the game.
Switchblade drones US sending to Ukraine may be 'game changers' | Fox News

Now, a senior Ukrainian official is saying that Ukraine is seeing 1000 casualties per day and 200 to 500 dead just in Donbas. The Ukrainian army is being rapidly destroyed.
https://www.axios.com/2022/06/15/ukraine-1000-casualties-day-donbas-arakhamia

See post 7069 from June 5 to a link with more details and analysis.

The Javelins and Stingers were not “defeated,” they were out numbered. Typically, historically, Russia wins wars by sacrificing their people.

[WuWei]

EU Fast-Tracked Candidate Status For Ukraine Decision Expected Today

[Samm]

@Zander

@Samm

Maybe because India doesn’t belong to NATO?

We were talking about direct confrontation between “great” powers. Not nato non nato confrontation.

The occasional border skirmishes in the Hindu Kush between China, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and India are not serious confrontations. All four countries are claiming the area out of principle, not for any particular economic or strategic purpose.

[Samm]

@conan

@JayJay

That the war started is on Putin. He invaded.

Yes he did…why? You know why just don’t want to admit it because then you would have agreed with my reasoning.

@JayJay

Yes we have to start recognizing their interests, something we never really did.

Good

@JayJay

But stop using the “she made me hit her” excuse for Putin.

You pose a threat to me is enough for me to take first strike.

Ukraine ana/or NATO posed no threat to Russia. The only threat was to Putin’s ambitions to expand Russia’s boundaries.

[Samm]

@Bill.in.PA

Yes, Serbia was no threat to the US when we bombed it in 1999.

Iraq was no threat to the US when we invaded in 2003.

Libya was no threat to the US when we attacked it in 2011.

Does the US need be weakened until it never has the power to conduct unprovoked attacks in the future?

The US blockaded Cuba and threatened to invade over its military alliance with the Soviet Union. Was that unprovoked aggression against Cuba?

None of which has anything to do with Russia and Ukraine.

[conan]

BS…you can claim defense all you want but moment NATO has a military base there…it become offensive by nature.

[Samm]

@conan

BS…you can claim defense all you want but moment NATO has a military base there…it become offensive by nature.

Russia already held the trump card to keep Ukraine from joining NATO. And NATO had/has no plans to invade Russia. The ONLY reason for this war is Putin’s personal ambitions.

[JayJay]

@Samm

@conan

BS…you can claim defense all you want but moment NATO has a military base there…it become offensive by nature.

Russia already held the trump card to keep Ukraine from joining NATO. And NATO had/has no plans to invade Russia. The ONLY reason for this war is Putin’s personal ambitions.

He’s even admitted it now…his goal is to restore Imperial Russia.