US to halt "provocative war-games" with S.Korea


#121

I see it somewhat the same. I think Kim has to “save face” in his own country but again…the ball is in his court. He may take a new road for the betterment of his country or he can continue on the same path and we may get nothing out of this except another war?


#122

So close and yet so far away…


#123

Thinking about this, conceding we don’t do war games (which is different than readiness exercises) isn’t that big of a concession. Then again, neither is suspending nuclear weapons tests and missile launches. All of them can be rescinded quickly and easily.

The biggest thing this represents is a shift in the negotiating table. We are put on equal footing with NK and China is sort of mediating. It seems more akin to the US negotiating peace between Israel and Palestine

We are not in control.

Maybe it works out okay in the end. I hope it does. But I don’t think Trump or his supporters are understanding how this shifts the balance of power in the region.


#124

Agreed.

This is what I mean when I’m talking about “gains” and “losses”.

They either dont understand or are ignoring the psychological aspects of negotiation andcthat “perceptual gains and losses” are just as big…even bigger, actually…than the actual things that are being negotiated.

Especially at the start of negotiations.


#125

wow

he’s our savior.


#126

Don’t get your horse out there too far.


#127

And you find it wrong to provide Kim an olive branch of trust?

Do you want a denuclearized North Korea or not? If canceling these exercises this year, helps to get us there, why are you so upset about it?


#128

Who said I’m upset about it? I’m calling out right-wing hypocrisy over just the THOUGHT of Obama doing this very thing. Obama was EXCORIATED by the right-wing for saying he’d sit down with anyone, especially without preconditions. Now, Trump is reaping praise from the very same people for doing exactly what they excoriated Obama for having the audacity to talk about.

It’s tingle up the leg partisan hypocrisy.


#129

Um, the olive branch of trust should be coming from them. We are not the ones who have reneged on every single agreement made between us and them for decades. Not too mention the fact we are the superior negotiating party here. They are the weaker party. And our concessions (which really are a huge win for China as much as NK) reverse those roles unnecessarily.

We made a firm commitment to halt these training exercises. We used their words of provocative and war games. They agreed to keep talking. Why?


#130

Apples to oranges. Trump did not sit down with Kim, without preconditions.

Canceling training, is such an infinitesimally small thing to do, if it helps to start the process of de-nuking North Korea.


#131

What preconditions were there?


#132

What were the preconditions? Where are they listed out? Were they presented to the NK regime? What was their response? Did they modify any of the preconditions? Were we allowed to have verifiable confirmation that each and every precondition was met?


#133

Technically, you’re correct. The imposed preconditions on us, and we decided to meet them. Well, Trump did, and you cheer him for it.

It’s apples to apples. The right-wing was MAD that Obama would even CONSIDER sitting with someone as evil as a Kim. Trump did it. And gave. And got nothing but a wink and a maybe in return. And you cheer it.

Hypocrisy proven.


#134

They were the first to provide an olive branch of trust. You may remember that Kim released three US citizens from prison. We gave him absolutely nothing in return for the return of those people.


#135

You proved nothing, it sounds more like blind speculation. But I’ll bite, what lop-sided preconditions did the US agree to with Kim before he would meet with Trump?


#136

That is like saying if I break into your house and steal your television, and then give it back to you, that I’ve somehow made a concession of good will to you. :rofl:


#137

Trump wanted to make a deal really bad, and as a result he made a really bad “deal”. He got so rolled. Trump’s rep as being anything but crap at negotiations comes solely from his own PR. He is really terrible at it.


#138

One of those preconditions (stopping military exercises with SK) is exactly what led us to this point in the discussion.

How can you be so obtuse? Is it deliberate? I don’t get it.

Yes, right-wing hypocrisy continue to be proven every single day Trump is president, and this day is no exception.


#139

It doesn’t even seem like they were ever serious about it even from Jump Street. Trump tweeted basically mission accomplished and Pompeo is already saying well, maybe in the next couple years they’ll start making moves toward it.

Lol. It’s ■■■■■■■ incredible.


#140

He really operates like he’s producing a reality TV show and people are supposed to buy into it. It’s pretty comical.